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Many of the companies I work with have completely given up on operating in the EU because of this. edit: Why downvote me for stating a matter of fact?

by asow92 3y ago

kayodelycaon 3y ago
Yup. I got asked to block anyone from the EU from using a specific university software. Hope you’re not an exchange student on holiday! Fortunately, they aren’t in business anymore. (For unrelated reasons.)
cynicalsecurity 3y ago
This is good. An app that can't survive without stealing your private data isn't worthy to be on the European market.
- switch007 3y ago
  You’re happy with only large tech giants existing then. Because lots of regulations are just barriers to entry and allow the existing players to keep playing
  - asow92 3y ago
    [flagged]
  - hnlmorg 3y ago
    The problem is the same argument also works in reverse: few regulations just make it easier for larger players to block smaller players from operating via dishonest business practices. Ultimately existing players always have the advantage. As a side note: the startup world is thriving in Europe. So EU regulations can’t be that high of a barrier ;)
    - asow92 3y ago
      Personally, I don't think this works in real life. Consumers catch on to dishonest business practices and want choose new market options if/when they becomes available, and do not need a nanny state to pick winners and losers. If anything, excessive regulation and legal hurdles impede and prevent this market force from working as it should. Internet providers in the US are a perfect example of this in action: why would these virtual monopolies want to provide a better product if it's so hard for competition to materialize? They are incentivized to offer a less than ideal product while also lobbying for increased or maintained regulation to ensure the status quo. This isn't capitalism, but cronyism. Also, which startups are thriving in Europe with global appeal? Genuinely, un-sarcastically, curious.
      - hnlmorg 3y ago
        > Consumers catch on to dishonest business practices and want choose new market options if/when they becomes available, That almost never happens > Internet providers in the US are a perfect example of this in action: why would these virtual monopolies want to provide a better product if it's so hard for competition to materialize? Infrastructure costs is why you don’t see hundreds of competitors. New companies either need the capital to build new infrastructure, in which case they are usually more expensive due to economies of scale, or they have to resell someone else’s infrastructure. In which case they can only be as good as the monopolies. The ironic thing is in the UK there aren’t any monopolies in ISP. There is lots of healthy competition. So your example regarding deregulation proves the opposite of your point.
        asow92 3y ago
        > That almost never happens I beg to differ. https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/08/28/undercharged-iphone-14-owners-complain-about-lower-battery-endurance https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/08/28/undercharged-ipho... https://www.reddit.com/r/Spectrum/comments/ln0id2/spectrum_lies_violations_and_fraud/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Spectrum/comments/ln0id2/spectrum_l... https://www.thisoldhouse.com/home-finances/reviews/worst-home-warranty-companies https://www.thisoldhouse.com/home-finances/reviews/worst-hom... https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/13/23637401/samsung-fake-moon-photos-ai-galaxy-s21-s23-ultra https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/13/23637401/samsung-fake-moo... https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2018/02/01/bad-reputation-americas-top-20-most-hated-companies/1058718001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2018/02/01/bad...
- asow92 3y ago
  It's not like these companies are trying to steal your private data. They just don't see working through legal compliance as worth the squeeze — especially when they are young and don't have the resources to comply properly. edit: > worthy of the European market. Also, what an entitled, elitist thing to say. Maybe the US would be better off pulling out of Nato and letting Europe alone after all.
  - cynicalsecurity 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - asow92 3y ago
      It’s okay, I forgive you.
- throw10920 3y ago
  I think you responded to the wrong comment by accident, because nowhere did the parent user say that the companies they worked with were trying to take users' data, or had trouble with privacy-related EU law. Don't forget to double-check to make sure you're responding to the right comment!
babypuncher 3y ago
If you're company cannot subsist without stealing user data then it does not deserve to survive at all.
- asow92 3y ago
  That's not what I said. Some of these companies are non-profits that have nothing to do with the EU or ads at all, but are blocking EU users.
  - Apocryphon 3y ago
    How is the EU blocking non-profits from operating there?
    - asow92 3y ago
      This is from a US small non-profit, and small for-profit operating with way less than $1M in funding, and not necessarily intending to deal with people in the EU context: Not every company has money to pay for the hours to ensure they are GDPR compliant, so they opt out of serving EU clients altogether. It's not always a problem forever, but it's definitely a blocker sometimes.
      - donkeybeer 3y ago
        What does your app or website do that its having trouble complying with GDPR?
        asow92 3y ago
        That’s the thing: when I come onto a project they might not even know, nor have the hours to allocate to figure it out, and I ain’t working for free to figure it out.
        donkeybeer 3y ago
        What was your app trying to do? Be clear. If for example its just an information website with static content and its putting cookies on the users device, its a you problem, not a EU problem.

Many of the companies I work with have completely given up on operating in the EU because of this. edit: Why downvote me for stating a matter of fact?

by asow92 3y ago

Many of the companies I work with have completely given up on operating in the EU because of this. edit: Why downvote me for stating a matter of fact?

kayodelycaon 3y ago

Yup. I got asked to block anyone from the EU from using a specific university software. Hope you’re not an exchange student on holiday! Fortunately, they aren’t in business anymore. (For unrelated reasons.)

cynicalsecurity 3y ago

This is good. An app that can't survive without stealing your private data isn't worthy to be on the European market.

switch007 3y ago
You’re happy with only large tech giants existing then. Because lots of regulations are just barriers to entry and allow the existing players to keep playing
- asow92 3y ago
  [flagged]
- hnlmorg 3y ago
  The problem is the same argument also works in reverse: few regulations just make it easier for larger players to block smaller players from operating via dishonest business practices. Ultimately existing players always have the advantage. As a side note: the startup world is thriving in Europe. So EU regulations can’t be that high of a barrier ;)
  - asow92 3y ago
    Personally, I don't think this works in real life. Consumers catch on to dishonest business practices and want choose new market options if/when they becomes available, and do not need a nanny state to pick winners and losers. If anything, excessive regulation and legal hurdles impede and prevent this market force from working as it should. Internet providers in the US are a perfect example of this in action: why would these virtual monopolies want to provide a better product if it's so hard for competition to materialize? They are incentivized to offer a less than ideal product while also lobbying for increased or maintained regulation to ensure the status quo. This isn't capitalism, but cronyism. Also, which startups are thriving in Europe with global appeal? Genuinely, un-sarcastically, curious.
    - hnlmorg 3y ago
      > Consumers catch on to dishonest business practices and want choose new market options if/when they becomes available, That almost never happens > Internet providers in the US are a perfect example of this in action: why would these virtual monopolies want to provide a better product if it's so hard for competition to materialize? Infrastructure costs is why you don’t see hundreds of competitors. New companies either need the capital to build new infrastructure, in which case they are usually more expensive due to economies of scale, or they have to resell someone else’s infrastructure. In which case they can only be as good as the monopolies. The ironic thing is in the UK there aren’t any monopolies in ISP. There is lots of healthy competition. So your example regarding deregulation proves the opposite of your point.
      - asow92 3y ago
        > That almost never happens I beg to differ. https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/08/28/undercharged-iphone-14-owners-complain-about-lower-battery-endurance https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/08/28/undercharged-ipho... https://www.reddit.com/r/Spectrum/comments/ln0id2/spectrum_lies_violations_and_fraud/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Spectrum/comments/ln0id2/spectrum_l... https://www.thisoldhouse.com/home-finances/reviews/worst-home-warranty-companies https://www.thisoldhouse.com/home-finances/reviews/worst-hom... https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/13/23637401/samsung-fake-moon-photos-ai-galaxy-s21-s23-ultra https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/13/23637401/samsung-fake-moo... https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2018/02/01/bad-reputation-americas-top-20-most-hated-companies/1058718001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2018/02/01/bad...
asow92 3y ago
It's not like these companies are trying to steal your private data. They just don't see working through legal compliance as worth the squeeze — especially when they are young and don't have the resources to comply properly. edit: > worthy of the European market. Also, what an entitled, elitist thing to say. Maybe the US would be better off pulling out of Nato and letting Europe alone after all.
- cynicalsecurity 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - asow92 3y ago
    It’s okay, I forgive you.
throw10920 3y ago
I think you responded to the wrong comment by accident, because nowhere did the parent user say that the companies they worked with were trying to take users' data, or had trouble with privacy-related EU law. Don't forget to double-check to make sure you're responding to the right comment!

babypuncher 3y ago

If you're company cannot subsist without stealing user data then it does not deserve to survive at all.

asow92 3y ago
That's not what I said. Some of these companies are non-profits that have nothing to do with the EU or ads at all, but are blocking EU users.
- Apocryphon 3y ago
  How is the EU blocking non-profits from operating there?
  - asow92 3y ago
    This is from a US small non-profit, and small for-profit operating with way less than $1M in funding, and not necessarily intending to deal with people in the EU context: Not every company has money to pay for the hours to ensure they are GDPR compliant, so they opt out of serving EU clients altogether. It's not always a problem forever, but it's definitely a blocker sometimes.
    - donkeybeer 3y ago
      What does your app or website do that its having trouble complying with GDPR?
      - asow92 3y ago
        That’s the thing: when I come onto a project they might not even know, nor have the hours to allocate to figure it out, and I ain’t working for free to figure it out.
        donkeybeer 3y ago
        What was your app trying to do? Be clear. If for example its just an information website with static content and its putting cookies on the users device, its a you problem, not a EU problem.