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> Core Technology Fee — iOS apps distributed from the App Store and/or an alternative app marketplace will pay €0.50 for each first annual install per year over

by Kab1r 3y ago

> Core Technology Fee — iOS apps distributed from the App Store and/or an alternative app marketplace will pay €0.50 for each first annual install per year over a 1 million threshold. This seems unusually high. I would expect that a large number of apps meet this threshold. Am I correct in thinking this applies to apps that aren't monetized?

onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
It's high - but it's not that crazy. Assuming this doesn't count updates - the service is probably costing Apple €0.10 on average. Apple has a very hefty margin on everything it sells. If each update costs €0.5 - I suspect this is going to lead to a massive decline in European apps. That's simply too expensive for almost every app. There's probably less than 1000 apps this would make any material money off of. This is just another way for Apple to try to tax Facebook, Google, and a handful of other big apps.
- joshstrange 3y ago
  I don't think it includes updates. From the calculator [0]: > The first time an app or game is installed by an Apple account in the EU in a 12-month period. [0] https://developer.apple.com/support/fee-calculator-for-apps-in-the-eu/ https://developer.apple.com/support/fee-calculator-for-apps-...
  - internetter 3y ago
    > A first annual install may result from an app’s first-time install, a reinstall, or an update from any iOS app distribution option — including the App Store, an alternative app marketplace, TestFlight, an App Clip, volume purchases through Apple Business Manager and Apple School Manager, and/or a custom app. It does
    - foliveira 3y ago
      The first of either an install, reinstall or update in a 12 months period. It does not apply for every single update
- anvuong 3y ago
  Well it does count updates. So this is just bullshit from Apple.
- Yujf 3y ago
  It is not per update and the most significant thing is that it is also for apps that get distributed outside the app store. Which is the real issue and that is definitely insane
  - onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
    Wouldn't be surprised if the US allowed this - but I'll be shocked if they get away with it in the EU.
- dariosalvi78 3y ago
  paying for what? for NOT using their infrastructure? it's not just crazy, it's criminal
- halostatue 3y ago
  This counts one install per 12 month period, whether update or fresh install (new user). So it’s €0.50 per user device. For application providers that opt into the new terms and release updates every two weeks like clockwork even if there are no meaningful updates for 300Mb application bundles (Facebook, Duolingo, a few others)…this is likely a fair cost (and my suspicion is that yes, there's a premium, but it's probably not Apple's usual 20%+ premium on products since many applications would not be subject to this fee at all, even under the new terms).
joshstrange 3y ago
> Am I correct in thinking this applies to apps that aren't monetized? You are correct according to their calculator [0]. If I say I have 2M annual installs (1M over the "free tier") and no in-app purchase it will cost $45,290/mo [0] https://developer.apple.com/support/fee-calculator-for-apps-in-the-eu/ https://developer.apple.com/support/fee-calculator-for-apps-...
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
Aachen 3y ago
> This seems unusually high. Looking at Unity wanting to charge 20 cents and the game development industry falling over itself to explain how that will never ever work for them... I dunno, maybe other app types (firefox, a mastodon client, osmand, local public transport.. looking at random examples from my homescreen) make enough money from their users and this will be doable for them when microtransaction-laden games couldn't make 2/5ths of that price work out
- callalex 3y ago
  That fee was per install, not per install-user-year.
  - Aachen 3y ago
    So that's worse right? Not 100k€ once but 100k€ every year
- lilyball 3y ago
  Unity wanted to charge for every single "install", where that category was defined so broadly that even loading the game in a web browser was an "install", and someone downloading and deleting and downloading the app over and over on a device was also repeated "installs". Here Apple is tracking an install across the entire user account per year, so even if you have tons of devices and install the app on every single one of them, that's still just one "install".
  - KomoD 3y ago
    Unity kept revising it over and over again so these two got removed IIRC: > that even loading the game in a web browser was an "install", and someone downloading and deleting and downloading the app over and over on a device was also repeated "installs".
  - Teledhil 3y ago
    Users can create multiple accounts
  - 3y ago
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
mvdtnz 3y ago
Imagine how much money they missed out on by not charging $0.50c for every install of those government COVID tracking apps all over the world. Apple is a scumbag company. Any developer who continues to support Apple by building software for their ecosystem is a bad person.
- turquoisevar 3y ago
  Hi, bad person here, happily building apps for their devices. They missed out on €0 because government entities, non-profits and educational institutions are exempt from the install fee. Alternatively you can also just stick with the App Store and pay 15%/30% over revenue without install fee, which would also be €0 in your hypothetical.
- eschatology 3y ago
  If you had read you would have found that government entities are exempt from the CTF fee
- graphe 3y ago
  Hitler watch out, apple app developers are trading your place in hell!
Kwpolska 3y ago
The support doc is slightly more informative: https://developer.apple.com/support/core-technology-fee/ https://developer.apple.com/support/core-technology-fee/ Free apps aren’t exempt. The fee is only for EU users. If you take the EU iOS market share of 33.3% [1] and the number of EU citizens (448 million) [2], you get ~150 million — and that’s assuming 1 smartphone/citizen, which is probably too much. [1] https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/europe https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/europe [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_European_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_European_U...
- pzo 3y ago
  > that’s assuming 1 smartphone/citizen, which is probably too much. sure kids <5 years old probably don't own smart devices. But many those EU citizens will own also ipad, apple watch and probably some older devices that they use from time to time (as a backup)
  - turquoisevar 3y ago
    Non-iPhone installs don’t count. Installs outside the EU don’t count either. It’s only first unique install in a 12 month period on iPhones in the EU and then only the ones that are above 1M that are charged €0.50 in monthly installments.
    - pzo 3y ago
      ok maybe iPad and apple watch doesn't count but still multiple iPhones belonging to the same user counts as separate install. And it's not only unique first install: "A first annual install may result from an app’s first-time install, a reinstall, or an update from any iOS app distribution option — including the App Store," [0] so updates and reinstalls count as well - just all installs, reinstalls, updates in 12 month period counts as one. But next year if you just make a bug fix to still support new iOS version that update will be paid as well to all your user install base. [0] https://developer.apple.com/support/core-technology-fee/ https://developer.apple.com/support/core-technology-fee/
Yujf 3y ago
Yes, I think so. So apple wants to require they approve your app and then charge you €0,5 for every time it is installed for the privilege of avoiding using their infrastructure. It is honestly insane. I don't know the DMA in detail but I hope it is not and gets smacked with fines. And I hope if this is allowed the DMA gets updated so this is no longer allowed.
- martimarkov 3y ago
  Yeah well you are benefiting for Apple’s hardware and software so you need to pay. Can’t be a free-loaded just because you want to earn that extra bit of money while increasing the attack vector for the end user.
  - wiseowise 3y ago
    > Yeah well you are benefiting for Apple’s hardware and software so you need to pay. Right 1,5k euro I paid for an iPhone was a donation on my part, to actually pay for hardware and software now.
  - noptd 3y ago
    Haha no, it's the user's hardware that they purchased outright. Should LG be able to charge you every time you watch a movie or show on your TV?
    - xvector 3y ago
      Do you buy a TV from LG expecting to be able to install whatever you want on it?
      - diffeomorphism 3y ago
        Watch anything I want on it? Absolutely. A TV is made for watching what I want. A smartphone is for running the apps I want.
      - danShumway 3y ago
spacebanana7 3y ago
It might be effectively even higher if it’s per device rather than per user. A Spotify user could cost €2 on per device terms if they installed on their Apple Watch, iPhone, iPad and AppleTV.
- underdeserver 3y ago
  They specifically excluded iPadOS, watchOS and TvOS.
hedora 3y ago
They say its a bit under 1% of developers. According to this article, they have 34 million registered developers: https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/06/06/apple-now-has-over-34-million-registered-developers https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/06/06/apple-now-has-ove... So, it's probably within a factor of ten of 340,000 developers. That's a lot of apps.

by Kab1r 3y ago

onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago

It's high - but it's not that crazy. Assuming this doesn't count updates - the service is probably costing Apple €0.10 on average. Apple has a very hefty margin on everything it sells. If each update costs €0.5 - I suspect this is going to lead to a massive decline in European apps. That's simply too expensive for almost every app. There's probably less than 1000 apps this would make any material money off of. This is just another way for Apple to try to tax Facebook, Google, and a handful of other big apps.

joshstrange 3y ago
I don't think it includes updates. From the calculator [0]: > The first time an app or game is installed by an Apple account in the EU in a 12-month period. [0] https://developer.apple.com/support/fee-calculator-for-apps-in-the-eu/ https://developer.apple.com/support/fee-calculator-for-apps-...
- internetter 3y ago
  > A first annual install may result from an app’s first-time install, a reinstall, or an update from any iOS app distribution option — including the App Store, an alternative app marketplace, TestFlight, an App Clip, volume purchases through Apple Business Manager and Apple School Manager, and/or a custom app. It does
  - foliveira 3y ago
    The first of either an install, reinstall or update in a 12 months period. It does not apply for every single update
anvuong 3y ago
Well it does count updates. So this is just bullshit from Apple.
Yujf 3y ago
It is not per update and the most significant thing is that it is also for apps that get distributed outside the app store. Which is the real issue and that is definitely insane
- onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
  Wouldn't be surprised if the US allowed this - but I'll be shocked if they get away with it in the EU.
dariosalvi78 3y ago
paying for what? for NOT using their infrastructure? it's not just crazy, it's criminal
halostatue 3y ago
This counts one install per 12 month period, whether update or fresh install (new user). So it’s €0.50 per user device. For application providers that opt into the new terms and release updates every two weeks like clockwork even if there are no meaningful updates for 300Mb application bundles (Facebook, Duolingo, a few others)…this is likely a fair cost (and my suspicion is that yes, there's a premium, but it's probably not Apple's usual 20%+ premium on products since many applications would not be subject to this fee at all, even under the new terms).

joshstrange 3y ago

> Am I correct in thinking this applies to apps that aren't monetized? You are correct according to their calculator [0]. If I say I have 2M annual installs (1M over the "free tier") and no in-app purchase it will cost $45,290/mo [0] https://developer.apple.com/support/fee-calculator-for-apps-in-the-eu/ https://developer.apple.com/support/fee-calculator-for-apps-...

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

Aachen 3y ago

> This seems unusually high. Looking at Unity wanting to charge 20 cents and the game development industry falling over itself to explain how that will never ever work for them... I dunno, maybe other app types (firefox, a mastodon client, osmand, local public transport.. looking at random examples from my homescreen) make enough money from their users and this will be doable for them when microtransaction-laden games couldn't make 2/5ths of that price work out

callalex 3y ago
That fee was per install, not per install-user-year.
- Aachen 3y ago
  So that's worse right? Not 100k€ once but 100k€ every year
lilyball 3y ago
Unity wanted to charge for every single "install", where that category was defined so broadly that even loading the game in a web browser was an "install", and someone downloading and deleting and downloading the app over and over on a device was also repeated "installs". Here Apple is tracking an install across the entire user account per year, so even if you have tons of devices and install the app on every single one of them, that's still just one "install".
- KomoD 3y ago
  Unity kept revising it over and over again so these two got removed IIRC: > that even loading the game in a web browser was an "install", and someone downloading and deleting and downloading the app over and over on a device was also repeated "installs".
- Teledhil 3y ago
  Users can create multiple accounts
- 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

mvdtnz 3y ago

Imagine how much money they missed out on by not charging $0.50c for every install of those government COVID tracking apps all over the world. Apple is a scumbag company. Any developer who continues to support Apple by building software for their ecosystem is a bad person.

turquoisevar 3y ago
Hi, bad person here, happily building apps for their devices. They missed out on €0 because government entities, non-profits and educational institutions are exempt from the install fee. Alternatively you can also just stick with the App Store and pay 15%/30% over revenue without install fee, which would also be €0 in your hypothetical.
eschatology 3y ago
If you had read you would have found that government entities are exempt from the CTF fee
graphe 3y ago
Hitler watch out, apple app developers are trading your place in hell!

Kwpolska 3y ago

The support doc is slightly more informative: https://developer.apple.com/support/core-technology-fee/ https://developer.apple.com/support/core-technology-fee/ Free apps aren’t exempt. The fee is only for EU users. If you take the EU iOS market share of 33.3% [1] and the number of EU citizens (448 million) [2], you get ~150 million — and that’s assuming 1 smartphone/citizen, which is probably too much. [1] https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/europe https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/europe [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_European_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_European_U...

pzo 3y ago
> that’s assuming 1 smartphone/citizen, which is probably too much. sure kids <5 years old probably don't own smart devices. But many those EU citizens will own also ipad, apple watch and probably some older devices that they use from time to time (as a backup)
- turquoisevar 3y ago
  Non-iPhone installs don’t count. Installs outside the EU don’t count either. It’s only first unique install in a 12 month period on iPhones in the EU and then only the ones that are above 1M that are charged €0.50 in monthly installments.
  - pzo 3y ago
    ok maybe iPad and apple watch doesn't count but still multiple iPhones belonging to the same user counts as separate install. And it's not only unique first install: "A first annual install may result from an app’s first-time install, a reinstall, or an update from any iOS app distribution option — including the App Store," [0] so updates and reinstalls count as well - just all installs, reinstalls, updates in 12 month period counts as one. But next year if you just make a bug fix to still support new iOS version that update will be paid as well to all your user install base. [0] https://developer.apple.com/support/core-technology-fee/ https://developer.apple.com/support/core-technology-fee/

Yujf 3y ago

Yes, I think so. So apple wants to require they approve your app and then charge you €0,5 for every time it is installed for the privilege of avoiding using their infrastructure. It is honestly insane. I don't know the DMA in detail but I hope it is not and gets smacked with fines. And I hope if this is allowed the DMA gets updated so this is no longer allowed.

martimarkov 3y ago
Yeah well you are benefiting for Apple’s hardware and software so you need to pay. Can’t be a free-loaded just because you want to earn that extra bit of money while increasing the attack vector for the end user.
- wiseowise 3y ago
  > Yeah well you are benefiting for Apple’s hardware and software so you need to pay. Right 1,5k euro I paid for an iPhone was a donation on my part, to actually pay for hardware and software now.
- noptd 3y ago
  Haha no, it's the user's hardware that they purchased outright. Should LG be able to charge you every time you watch a movie or show on your TV?
  - xvector 3y ago
    Do you buy a TV from LG expecting to be able to install whatever you want on it?
    - diffeomorphism 3y ago
      Watch anything I want on it? Absolutely. A TV is made for watching what I want. A smartphone is for running the apps I want.
    - danShumway 3y ago

spacebanana7 3y ago

It might be effectively even higher if it’s per device rather than per user. A Spotify user could cost €2 on per device terms if they installed on their Apple Watch, iPhone, iPad and AppleTV.

underdeserver 3y ago
They specifically excluded iPadOS, watchOS and TvOS.

hedora 3y ago

They say its a bit under 1% of developers. According to this article, they have 34 million registered developers: https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/06/06/apple-now-has-over-34-million-registered-developers https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/06/06/apple-now-has-ove... So, it's probably within a factor of ten of 340,000 developers. That's a lot of apps.