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Russia does build it's own chips but their fab tech is about 15 years behind the state of the art. The Asianometry YouTube channel has some details on Russia's

by mempko 3y ago

Russia does build it's own chips but their fab tech is about 15 years behind the state of the art. The Asianometry YouTube channel has some details on Russia's own chips. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_4R4X7AWtU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_4R4X7AWtU While they build their own chips, the video looks at why Russia can't replace TSMC for all of domestic use. But I suspect the whole local industry is oriented towards the war machine. I doubt you need 3nm chips for missiles.

dragontamer 3y ago
Look at the war-chips discussed here. STM32. That means we are talking about 40nm or older chips that Russia is stealing from us. Yeah, we need to work better securing our border/customs. But we also can take a step back and laugh at the fact that they are stealing our low cost commodity low-tech chips.
- mempko 3y ago
  I agree with you about borders and customs. However, I don't find war a laughing matter. Lots of people are dying. War is about supply chain and scale. Higher tech, but lower yield chips would not be good for a war machine. You want simplicity and scale. You don't actually want the latest technology, but robust older, predictable technology. I guess we can laugh that they can't even produce it domestically. https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-ammunition-manufacturing-ukraine-west-officials-2023-9?op=1 https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-ammunition-manufactur... The Soviet and now Russian approach to war is logistics, math. They use a lot of modelling in their strategy. Its clear they are not having too many logistic problems despite sanctions if they can produce so much. And that is worrying. When supply lines were cut in Kherson by Ukraine, Russia pulled back. If Ukraine wants to win, they need to target supply lines and production capacity. They can target supply lines, but production capacity seems so far out of reach. I guess the fact that neither party has officially declared war on each other means targeting production will remain out of reach. You read that right, neither Ukraine or Russia had officially declared war.
  - dragontamer 3y ago
    Russia isn't producing these STM32 chips. They're getting imported through Taiwan. That means we can stop the production of Russian drones by just being more careful about STM32 exports. No need to bomb or explode anything. NXP chips as well: that's being imported through Europe. Intel Altera chips likely came from Arizona, Texas, Utah, or maybe Israel. There's only so many places those chips are made. ----------- How did a chip made in (probably) Arizona get into a Russian drone that killed Ukrainians? That's what this story is about. (In the case of Intel/Altera FPGAs). There's tons-and-tons of chips that have come from various USA (Intel Altera FPGA), European (NXP), Korean, or Taiwanese (TSMC makes STM32 IIRC) fabrication facilities. Russia is importing them because Russia either has no capability to make these chips at home, or has decided that importing them is cheaper/easier. That's their weakness, its something we can cut-off if we tightened up customs a bit.
    - mempko 3y ago
      You are absolutely right. My guess is older high volume chips are harder to control.
    - polishdude20 3y ago
      We can stop it but how long will it take to dwindle their supplies? If these drones use one per drone and you can buy thousands of these chips easily, they've got a lot of drones to be built before their own supply runs out
      - dragontamer 3y ago
        Then we do this in preparation of the next war. Iran (Hezbollah/Hamas/Houthis), North Korea, etc. etc. There's plenty of groups around the world who do _NOT_ have the capabilities to build chips who will 100% copy Russia's strategy here. We need to keep these chips out of their hands too. Even if its "too late" to stop it for Russia-Ukraine, its not too late to stop it in say... I dunno... China vs Taiwan scenario in a few years. Better to get started on this today rather than complaining about it again 5 years from now when the _NEXT_ inevitable group starts stealing our chips to build their munitions. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good here. Regardless of the future, we will be happier as a country to have this figured out today, rather than delaying this another few years.
- polishdude20 3y ago
  On the other hand, if they have fabd creating more sophisticated chips, why would they also create old tech when they can just buy it? Just because they're using STM32's doesn't mean their fab tech is worse. It means the cost of making their own 40mm chips right now is more than the cost of importing them.

by mempko 3y ago

dragontamer 3y ago

Look at the war-chips discussed here. STM32. That means we are talking about 40nm or older chips that Russia is stealing from us. Yeah, we need to work better securing our border/customs. But we also can take a step back and laugh at the fact that they are stealing our low cost commodity low-tech chips.

mempko 3y ago
I agree with you about borders and customs. However, I don't find war a laughing matter. Lots of people are dying. War is about supply chain and scale. Higher tech, but lower yield chips would not be good for a war machine. You want simplicity and scale. You don't actually want the latest technology, but robust older, predictable technology. I guess we can laugh that they can't even produce it domestically. https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-ammunition-manufacturing-ukraine-west-officials-2023-9?op=1 https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-ammunition-manufactur... The Soviet and now Russian approach to war is logistics, math. They use a lot of modelling in their strategy. Its clear they are not having too many logistic problems despite sanctions if they can produce so much. And that is worrying. When supply lines were cut in Kherson by Ukraine, Russia pulled back. If Ukraine wants to win, they need to target supply lines and production capacity. They can target supply lines, but production capacity seems so far out of reach. I guess the fact that neither party has officially declared war on each other means targeting production will remain out of reach. You read that right, neither Ukraine or Russia had officially declared war.
- dragontamer 3y ago
  Russia isn't producing these STM32 chips. They're getting imported through Taiwan. That means we can stop the production of Russian drones by just being more careful about STM32 exports. No need to bomb or explode anything. NXP chips as well: that's being imported through Europe. Intel Altera chips likely came from Arizona, Texas, Utah, or maybe Israel. There's only so many places those chips are made. ----------- How did a chip made in (probably) Arizona get into a Russian drone that killed Ukrainians? That's what this story is about. (In the case of Intel/Altera FPGAs). There's tons-and-tons of chips that have come from various USA (Intel Altera FPGA), European (NXP), Korean, or Taiwanese (TSMC makes STM32 IIRC) fabrication facilities. Russia is importing them because Russia either has no capability to make these chips at home, or has decided that importing them is cheaper/easier. That's their weakness, its something we can cut-off if we tightened up customs a bit.
  - mempko 3y ago
    You are absolutely right. My guess is older high volume chips are harder to control.
  - polishdude20 3y ago
    We can stop it but how long will it take to dwindle their supplies? If these drones use one per drone and you can buy thousands of these chips easily, they've got a lot of drones to be built before their own supply runs out
    - dragontamer 3y ago
      Then we do this in preparation of the next war. Iran (Hezbollah/Hamas/Houthis), North Korea, etc. etc. There's plenty of groups around the world who do _NOT_ have the capabilities to build chips who will 100% copy Russia's strategy here. We need to keep these chips out of their hands too. Even if its "too late" to stop it for Russia-Ukraine, its not too late to stop it in say... I dunno... China vs Taiwan scenario in a few years. Better to get started on this today rather than complaining about it again 5 years from now when the _NEXT_ inevitable group starts stealing our chips to build their munitions. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good here. Regardless of the future, we will be happier as a country to have this figured out today, rather than delaying this another few years.
polishdude20 3y ago
On the other hand, if they have fabd creating more sophisticated chips, why would they also create old tech when they can just buy it? Just because they're using STM32's doesn't mean their fab tech is worse. It means the cost of making their own 40mm chips right now is more than the cost of importing them.