7 ms·

Its a different experience in the UK where trespass laws are so different. Here in the land of the free, where we value property rights over freedom of motion,

Its a different experience in the UK where trespass laws are so different. Here in the land of the free, where we value property rights over freedom of motion, we are restricted to explore only a fraction of the land around us. One man's freedom is another man's bonds.

elheffe80 3y ago
In the US we also have the largest park system that is quite cheap/free. Not every area is covered with parks, but there are enough green spaces within a short distance (less than 1 hour) that exploring should be possible. Further, a lot of people will let you go on their land if you ask them and are polite about your time on their land. Regardless- I agree that we do not have it as fun as they do in the UK and some other areas that treat land like they do.
- Solvency 3y ago
  Let's also not forget BLM land, where Americans can and do load up a F150 Raptor and run 90 mph across the desert, camping anywhere they want, shooting semiautomatic rifles into the air freely, living out their freedom fever dreams. Try doing that in the UK.
  - ninju 3y ago
    The Bureau of Land Management (BLM) even has a portal with maps https://www.blm.gov/maps/georeferenced-PDFs https://www.blm.gov/maps/georeferenced-PDFs
  - samschooler 3y ago
    This is what I'm doing this weekend. I'm not even joking, headed to Moab.
  - bombcar 3y ago
    BLM land is a million square kilometers. That's about ten times the size of the UK. There is something to be said for the UK traipsing laws from time immemorial - because you can explore something other than a million square kilometers of mostly unused land.
- trgn 3y ago
  > there are enough green spaces that's the point. America has green spaces, UK has country side, terroir if you will. A green space is a delineated, commoditized destination. Drive there, park there, do your thing, go back. A country-side can be enjoyed through osmosis, even when living in the city. They're qualitatively different.
  - hickelpickle 3y ago
    There are also 300,000 square miles of national forest/grasslands which is 3x the size of the UK. All of which is freely available with the right to dispersed camping for up to 14 days at one spot, after which you must move camp 5 miles to camp more. Opinions on property rights aside there is no lack of land to explore and enjoy. Aside from there there are also state parks and forests, though the states define their own terms of use and enjoyment around them.
    - trgn 3y ago
      I'm not disagreeing. I'm just saying that they are a qualitative different experience, to the senses, in the way they are integrated in daily life.
      - hickelpickle 3y ago
        How popular is frequenting other peoples land for outdoor experiences? Genuinely curious, as I have heard about the lack of trespassing laws many times over the years, and know little about the experiences the UK countryside has to offer. Like what activities and locations do people partake in. Is it thing like hiking and waterway activities?
        trgn 3y ago
        > Like what activities and locations do people partake in. It's less about delineated activities (which are a number, countable, very modernist), and more the day2day enjoyment of nature, as it bleeds through city life, you don't necessarily seek it out, it just happens (which can't be put into a number, can only be waxed rhapsodically about, very humanist). It's visiting family one town over, leaving your city house and smelling cow shit as you bike there. It's a train commute and seeing the fog roll over centuries year old pastures on the way. It's eating venison in a tavern restaurant in fall, and was shot by the local hunter's club. It's a date that starts as a forest hike in the afternoon and imperceptibly blends into a pub crawl at night. I live in a city of a state which is by all accounts rugged and rustic, in close proximity to wilderness, parks, farmland, etc... but there's a clear separation of intent. When I lived in Europe, the enjoyment of nature was more through a surrounding vapor, unconscious. I'm not saying that one is necessarily worse, but to me the experience is starkly different, and that difference can't be captured in numbers. It's also a spectrum, location dependent, ymmv, blah blah etc..
- beauzero 3y ago
  This has been the hardest adjustment for me moving from Montana to the deep South. The south has definite advantages for me at this point. Stability, easier growing crops and animals, better infrastructure, etc. But not being able to just walk all over the place is hard. It was a lot easier to get away and I definitely feel claustrophobic (some of it is no mountains). I know opportunities here are better for my family but I miss home.
- harimau777 3y ago
  It seems to me that the difference is that public land and national parks are more or less devoid of people while countryside is a combination of nature and people. There's lots of nature to explore but it's full of ancient cemeteries, small communities, farms, hills with various legends attached to them, etc. To me there has to be the people to give the nature significance. Otherwise it's not so much exploration as it is just a massive camping trip.
Solvency 3y ago
I don't fully understand this idea. In the UK I can just point in a direction and walk unrestricted anywhere i want? Through peoples farms, yards, castle grounds, etc?
- NikkiA 3y ago
  For england, wales and NI; No, but there are plenty of public walkways that cross private land, they're almost always marked with signs, although farmers have been known to make such signposts magically disappear. The end result is that you can essentially 'point in a rough direction' and walk however far you want, however not just on any part of the land. A good OS map, analog or digital, helps.
- leocassarani 3y ago
  You can in Scotland: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Outdoor_Access_Code https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Outdoor_Access_Code In the rest of the UK, it's a little more complicated (for now): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam#England_and_Wales https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam#England_and_Wa...
- simonbarker87 3y ago
  You can’t literally go anywhere but there a varying degrees of Right To Roam here. We have an extensive network of public foot paths and bridal ways that private land owners aren’t allowed to block if they go across their land. There are several through sheep fields, cow fields, crop fields and even a couple of stable fields where people keep their horses with a 5 minute walk of my house.
  - tonyedgecombe 3y ago
    And even if you make a mistake and stray off the official path you are extremely unlikely to be shot.
    - yason 3y ago
      Instead, you are extremely likely to be declined a cup of tea...
cowboysauce 3y ago
Roughly 40% of the United States is public land and there are national parks larger than some European contries. Sure, it's not freedom to roam, but you still have access to significantly more public land living in the United States than you would living in the UK.
- doctorwho42 3y ago
  This is where statistics can really blind you, a majority of that is out west. Major population centers are on the coast. So you would still need to burn jet fuel to get there in a reasonable time frame.
  - BobaFloutist 3y ago
    This may come as a surprise to you, but one of the coasts with several population centers is also out west.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago
    The majority may be there, but there are still many scattered throughout the country. FFS, there's a National Park in New York City: Gateway National Recreation Area. At least I hope it's still there: used to go mountain biking there a long time ago.
- trey-jones 3y ago
  Most of my vacations in the last several years have been to do with state parks in the Southeastern US. We've been to several in Georgia, Alabama, and North and South Carolina. In a lot of these cases, we would stage at one park (or in some cases, not-a-park) for several days and go out to another place or park each day. I've lived in Georgia for most of my 40 years, and most of these parks I had never heard of until we went there. I think almost every single one has been a really good experience. And it's very affordable for my family of 5. We don't have to go far. They're all a little bit different. I've seen Yosemite, and the Grand Canyon, and other sites of note in the US. They are really neat, and can be worth the trip. But I'm pretty sure at this point that I'll never even see everything that my home state has to offer in my lifetime, so I'm pretty content to stick to reasonable driving distance.
sneed_chucker 3y ago
Depends on where you live. There are huge swaths of public land in the US where anyone is allowed to hike, explore, camp, hunt, or just shoot guns into the dirt. There are also many State and National parks which are cheap or free to visit. But yes, once a private entity owns the land in the US you'll need permission to do anything.
fifilura 3y ago
Information about "freedom to roam" in different countries and regions. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam
tony_cannistra 3y ago
For those Americans among us, there is an interesting short Patagonia adventure film about this in Scotland called "Right to Roam." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilmhR_EgK8Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilmhR_EgK8Y

elheffe80 3y ago

In the US we also have the largest park system that is quite cheap/free. Not every area is covered with parks, but there are enough green spaces within a short distance (less than 1 hour) that exploring should be possible. Further, a lot of people will let you go on their land if you ask them and are polite about your time on their land. Regardless- I agree that we do not have it as fun as they do in the UK and some other areas that treat land like they do.

Solvency 3y ago
Let's also not forget BLM land, where Americans can and do load up a F150 Raptor and run 90 mph across the desert, camping anywhere they want, shooting semiautomatic rifles into the air freely, living out their freedom fever dreams. Try doing that in the UK.
- ninju 3y ago
  The Bureau of Land Management (BLM) even has a portal with maps https://www.blm.gov/maps/georeferenced-PDFs https://www.blm.gov/maps/georeferenced-PDFs
- samschooler 3y ago
  This is what I'm doing this weekend. I'm not even joking, headed to Moab.
- bombcar 3y ago
  BLM land is a million square kilometers. That's about ten times the size of the UK. There is something to be said for the UK traipsing laws from time immemorial - because you can explore something other than a million square kilometers of mostly unused land.
trgn 3y ago
> there are enough green spaces that's the point. America has green spaces, UK has country side, terroir if you will. A green space is a delineated, commoditized destination. Drive there, park there, do your thing, go back. A country-side can be enjoyed through osmosis, even when living in the city. They're qualitatively different.
- hickelpickle 3y ago
  There are also 300,000 square miles of national forest/grasslands which is 3x the size of the UK. All of which is freely available with the right to dispersed camping for up to 14 days at one spot, after which you must move camp 5 miles to camp more. Opinions on property rights aside there is no lack of land to explore and enjoy. Aside from there there are also state parks and forests, though the states define their own terms of use and enjoyment around them.
  - trgn 3y ago
    I'm not disagreeing. I'm just saying that they are a qualitative different experience, to the senses, in the way they are integrated in daily life.
    - hickelpickle 3y ago
      How popular is frequenting other peoples land for outdoor experiences? Genuinely curious, as I have heard about the lack of trespassing laws many times over the years, and know little about the experiences the UK countryside has to offer. Like what activities and locations do people partake in. Is it thing like hiking and waterway activities?
      - trgn 3y ago
        > Like what activities and locations do people partake in. It's less about delineated activities (which are a number, countable, very modernist), and more the day2day enjoyment of nature, as it bleeds through city life, you don't necessarily seek it out, it just happens (which can't be put into a number, can only be waxed rhapsodically about, very humanist). It's visiting family one town over, leaving your city house and smelling cow shit as you bike there. It's a train commute and seeing the fog roll over centuries year old pastures on the way. It's eating venison in a tavern restaurant in fall, and was shot by the local hunter's club. It's a date that starts as a forest hike in the afternoon and imperceptibly blends into a pub crawl at night. I live in a city of a state which is by all accounts rugged and rustic, in close proximity to wilderness, parks, farmland, etc... but there's a clear separation of intent. When I lived in Europe, the enjoyment of nature was more through a surrounding vapor, unconscious. I'm not saying that one is necessarily worse, but to me the experience is starkly different, and that difference can't be captured in numbers. It's also a spectrum, location dependent, ymmv, blah blah etc..
beauzero 3y ago
This has been the hardest adjustment for me moving from Montana to the deep South. The south has definite advantages for me at this point. Stability, easier growing crops and animals, better infrastructure, etc. But not being able to just walk all over the place is hard. It was a lot easier to get away and I definitely feel claustrophobic (some of it is no mountains). I know opportunities here are better for my family but I miss home.
harimau777 3y ago
It seems to me that the difference is that public land and national parks are more or less devoid of people while countryside is a combination of nature and people. There's lots of nature to explore but it's full of ancient cemeteries, small communities, farms, hills with various legends attached to them, etc. To me there has to be the people to give the nature significance. Otherwise it's not so much exploration as it is just a massive camping trip.

Solvency 3y ago

I don't fully understand this idea. In the UK I can just point in a direction and walk unrestricted anywhere i want? Through peoples farms, yards, castle grounds, etc?

NikkiA 3y ago
For england, wales and NI; No, but there are plenty of public walkways that cross private land, they're almost always marked with signs, although farmers have been known to make such signposts magically disappear. The end result is that you can essentially 'point in a rough direction' and walk however far you want, however not just on any part of the land. A good OS map, analog or digital, helps.
leocassarani 3y ago
You can in Scotland: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Outdoor_Access_Code https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Outdoor_Access_Code In the rest of the UK, it's a little more complicated (for now): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam#England_and_Wales https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam#England_and_Wa...
simonbarker87 3y ago
You can’t literally go anywhere but there a varying degrees of Right To Roam here. We have an extensive network of public foot paths and bridal ways that private land owners aren’t allowed to block if they go across their land. There are several through sheep fields, cow fields, crop fields and even a couple of stable fields where people keep their horses with a 5 minute walk of my house.
- tonyedgecombe 3y ago
  And even if you make a mistake and stray off the official path you are extremely unlikely to be shot.
  - yason 3y ago
    Instead, you are extremely likely to be declined a cup of tea...

cowboysauce 3y ago

Roughly 40% of the United States is public land and there are national parks larger than some European contries. Sure, it's not freedom to roam, but you still have access to significantly more public land living in the United States than you would living in the UK.

doctorwho42 3y ago
This is where statistics can really blind you, a majority of that is out west. Major population centers are on the coast. So you would still need to burn jet fuel to get there in a reasonable time frame.
- BobaFloutist 3y ago
  This may come as a surprise to you, but one of the coasts with several population centers is also out west.
- HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago
  The majority may be there, but there are still many scattered throughout the country. FFS, there's a National Park in New York City: Gateway National Recreation Area. At least I hope it's still there: used to go mountain biking there a long time ago.
trey-jones 3y ago
Most of my vacations in the last several years have been to do with state parks in the Southeastern US. We've been to several in Georgia, Alabama, and North and South Carolina. In a lot of these cases, we would stage at one park (or in some cases, not-a-park) for several days and go out to another place or park each day. I've lived in Georgia for most of my 40 years, and most of these parks I had never heard of until we went there. I think almost every single one has been a really good experience. And it's very affordable for my family of 5. We don't have to go far. They're all a little bit different. I've seen Yosemite, and the Grand Canyon, and other sites of note in the US. They are really neat, and can be worth the trip. But I'm pretty sure at this point that I'll never even see everything that my home state has to offer in my lifetime, so I'm pretty content to stick to reasonable driving distance.

sneed_chucker 3y ago

Depends on where you live. There are huge swaths of public land in the US where anyone is allowed to hike, explore, camp, hunt, or just shoot guns into the dirt. There are also many State and National parks which are cheap or free to visit. But yes, once a private entity owns the land in the US you'll need permission to do anything.

fifilura 3y ago

Information about "freedom to roam" in different countries and regions. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam

tony_cannistra 3y ago

For those Americans among us, there is an interesting short Patagonia adventure film about this in Scotland called "Right to Roam." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilmhR_EgK8Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilmhR_EgK8Y