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I agree there might be a relationship between the physical state and the actual experience of it, but ultimately they cannot be bridged. There's only one way to

I agree there might be a relationship between the physical state and the actual experience of it, but ultimately they cannot be bridged. There's only one way to bridge that gap and it's to "be" the physical state, and that's a concept that has absolutely no analogy in physical phenomena. But it's even worse than you say, because those relationships are generated purely within the mind, we don't find them outside the mind, so really all physicality is an illusion, it's all ultimately internal.

FrustratedMonky 3y ago
Or even worse, the phenomena doesn't exist internally or externally. They are a combination of the processing of the sensory inputs and the internal model. So the 'phenomena' is really the processing of the inputs, no substance at all because it is the processing itself. Kind of what was described in 'Being You', by Anil Seth. Our reality is a 'controlled hallucination'. Though I don't like the terminology because it is to easily misunderstood. But. Guess, I fall on side that we can still study how Phenomena is generated internally. And still be able to understand it. Just because we can't experience the exact same phenomena as someone else, shouldn't mean we can't figure out how it is generated.
ta8645 3y ago
> so really all physicality is an illusion, it's all ultimately internal. You don't really believe that. If you did, you would be fine jumping out of an airplane without a parachute, or something even more fatal.. because the physical "doesn't matter", only the internal.
- bowsamic 3y ago
  If I do that I think I will have a negative mental experience, therefore it matters. The internal world will become undesirable if I jump out of an airplane. There is no external reason why I don't want to do that. If I could jump out of an airplane without a parachute and not expect it will have a negative impact on my internal world I would be fine with doing it. So yes I do really believe it!
  - ta8645 3y ago
    Why on earth would doing ANYTHNG in an imaginary, unimportant, realm affect your mental internal world? You don't want to admit it, but you're basically confirming that you do understand that you can not stand apart from the physical realm. You are playing mental gymnastics to pretend you're in touch with some higher knowledge and understanding... but you're still constrained to the physical world, just like the rest of us.
    - bowsamic 3y ago
      Well, a story can also affect my internal world, if that’s your criteria of reality, yet I doubt you consider that as real as the physical world. Basically, according to your argument, there is already no distinction between physical and mental, which is the very reason I simply say it’s all mental. The reason I don’t call it all physical is because physical usually means “out there” and not “in here”. No, everything, absolutely everything, is “in here”. There is no “out there”. I perceive reality in this way. If you touch some outside directly that is amazing magic and a contradiction to any Logic I know. It seems kind of like you can’t really accept that this is how I understand reality. I have a tip for you: others’ views will be much clearer to you if you don’t assume they’re lying about believing them. Maybe they really do see differently to you
      - ta8645 3y ago
        There's a recent video you can search, a woman walking out the door of her apartment building. A young man sneaks up behind her and puts a bullet in her head. She died. She didn't have to have any thought about the bullet. She didn't have to think ANYTHING about the physical world. Nothing about her state of mind affected the outcome. Physical reality is independent of what we think of it. > Maybe they really do see differently to you I appreciate you think you see it differently. But your actions show you don't believe it as deeply as you think you do. You are a prisoner of the physical realm, not an inhabitant of a higher, more spiritual, plane. What good is it saying something is imaginary, if it affects everything you do, and you can't escape it. That sounds like something very real indeed.

FrustratedMonky 3y ago

Or even worse, the phenomena doesn't exist internally or externally. They are a combination of the processing of the sensory inputs and the internal model. So the 'phenomena' is really the processing of the inputs, no substance at all because it is the processing itself. Kind of what was described in 'Being You', by Anil Seth. Our reality is a 'controlled hallucination'. Though I don't like the terminology because it is to easily misunderstood. But. Guess, I fall on side that we can still study how Phenomena is generated internally. And still be able to understand it. Just because we can't experience the exact same phenomena as someone else, shouldn't mean we can't figure out how it is generated.

ta8645 3y ago

> so really all physicality is an illusion, it's all ultimately internal. You don't really believe that. If you did, you would be fine jumping out of an airplane without a parachute, or something even more fatal.. because the physical "doesn't matter", only the internal.

bowsamic 3y ago
If I do that I think I will have a negative mental experience, therefore it matters. The internal world will become undesirable if I jump out of an airplane. There is no external reason why I don't want to do that. If I could jump out of an airplane without a parachute and not expect it will have a negative impact on my internal world I would be fine with doing it. So yes I do really believe it!
- ta8645 3y ago
  Why on earth would doing ANYTHNG in an imaginary, unimportant, realm affect your mental internal world? You don't want to admit it, but you're basically confirming that you do understand that you can not stand apart from the physical realm. You are playing mental gymnastics to pretend you're in touch with some higher knowledge and understanding... but you're still constrained to the physical world, just like the rest of us.
  - bowsamic 3y ago
    Well, a story can also affect my internal world, if that’s your criteria of reality, yet I doubt you consider that as real as the physical world. Basically, according to your argument, there is already no distinction between physical and mental, which is the very reason I simply say it’s all mental. The reason I don’t call it all physical is because physical usually means “out there” and not “in here”. No, everything, absolutely everything, is “in here”. There is no “out there”. I perceive reality in this way. If you touch some outside directly that is amazing magic and a contradiction to any Logic I know. It seems kind of like you can’t really accept that this is how I understand reality. I have a tip for you: others’ views will be much clearer to you if you don’t assume they’re lying about believing them. Maybe they really do see differently to you
    - ta8645 3y ago
      There's a recent video you can search, a woman walking out the door of her apartment building. A young man sneaks up behind her and puts a bullet in her head. She died. She didn't have to have any thought about the bullet. She didn't have to think ANYTHING about the physical world. Nothing about her state of mind affected the outcome. Physical reality is independent of what we think of it. > Maybe they really do see differently to you I appreciate you think you see it differently. But your actions show you don't believe it as deeply as you think you do. You are a prisoner of the physical realm, not an inhabitant of a higher, more spiritual, plane. What good is it saying something is imaginary, if it affects everything you do, and you can't escape it. That sounds like something very real indeed.