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I can almost see how they'd get away with a review process under the guise of security, then add an app's fingerprint to some blacklist and automatically remove

I can almost see how they'd get away with a review process under the guise of security, then add an app's fingerprint to some blacklist and automatically remove it from all devices. Charging fees for sideloaded apps though? Even ignoring the part where it goes against the Digital Markets Act, how does it even work in practise? If I (as an end user) sideload some file I downloaded from the web, the developer/publisher of the file wasn't involved, possibly hasn't entered into any agreement with Apple, and won't have an account set up to pay whatever ridiculous fees Apple demand - which, of course, was the point of the DMA in the first place (freedom from a monopolistic app store).

jascination 3y ago
You would still need Xcode / an apple developer account/ provisioning profiles etc etc etc all through Apple to develop iOS apps though, so with that there's potential for some apple => dev agreement. Not saying it's good or bad, just that the distribution channel might change but that doesn't mean the development tools will
- EMIRELADERO 3y ago
  That's not the rub though. I imagine that, as sideloading becomes much more commonplace due to the DMA, community-led FOSS iOS SDKs will pop up that cut all dependency from Apple. That's not where they get you, however. Apple could very well enforce IPAs to be notarized before being installable by an end-user. They could make a web form for the developer to upload the compiled binary. The form would be contract-gated. That's how, even when assuming a fully Apple-independent dev environment, they could still bind you to their will.
  - theturtletalks 3y ago
    This kind of exists in the iOS side loading world. It’s called TrollStore and it uses a CoreKit vulnerability to trick your side loaded app from expiring by running a spoof-server. It also bypasses the 3 app limit for non-developers. It’s open-source, but Apple patched it on newer iOS versions.
    - EMIRELADERO 3y ago
      by "FOSS SDK" I meant an equivalent to XCode, libs and headers, scripts, etc. Not the signing stuff.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
  - barelysapient 3y ago
    I mean, you're still running on Apple's OS right? So, unless Apple gets forced to open up their OS, all apps, side loaded or otherwise, depend on Apple Licensed software. Licensed software that Apple is free to set whatever terms they wish.
extraduder_ire 3y ago
The iOS device that it's sideloaded onto could (and does already, IIRC) contact apple's revocation server after install. They could get numbers about the install base from that.

jascination 3y ago

You would still need Xcode / an apple developer account/ provisioning profiles etc etc etc all through Apple to develop iOS apps though, so with that there's potential for some apple => dev agreement. Not saying it's good or bad, just that the distribution channel might change but that doesn't mean the development tools will

EMIRELADERO 3y ago
That's not the rub though. I imagine that, as sideloading becomes much more commonplace due to the DMA, community-led FOSS iOS SDKs will pop up that cut all dependency from Apple. That's not where they get you, however. Apple could very well enforce IPAs to be notarized before being installable by an end-user. They could make a web form for the developer to upload the compiled binary. The form would be contract-gated. That's how, even when assuming a fully Apple-independent dev environment, they could still bind you to their will.
- theturtletalks 3y ago
  This kind of exists in the iOS side loading world. It’s called TrollStore and it uses a CoreKit vulnerability to trick your side loaded app from expiring by running a spoof-server. It also bypasses the 3 app limit for non-developers. It’s open-source, but Apple patched it on newer iOS versions.
  - EMIRELADERO 3y ago
    by "FOSS SDK" I meant an equivalent to XCode, libs and headers, scripts, etc. Not the signing stuff.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- barelysapient 3y ago
  I mean, you're still running on Apple's OS right? So, unless Apple gets forced to open up their OS, all apps, side loaded or otherwise, depend on Apple Licensed software. Licensed software that Apple is free to set whatever terms they wish.

extraduder_ire 3y ago

The iOS device that it's sideloaded onto could (and does already, IIRC) contact apple's revocation server after install. They could get numbers about the install base from that.