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Who gets hurt? Would you consider this train robber a danger to society? 25+ years is way out of proportion for the offense. Long sentences as a form of deterr

Who gets hurt? Would you consider this train robber a danger to society? 25+ years is way out of proportion for the offense. Long sentences as a form of deterrence are not as effective as things like the likelihood of getting caught. https://www.ojp.gov/library/publications/five-things-about-deterrence https://www.ojp.gov/library/publications/five-things-about-d... Incarceration without rehabilitation does not solve the underlying problems and leads to recidivism. Ruining someone's life over a few Amazon packages makes no sense, ethically or financially.

Georgelemental 3y ago
> Who gets hurt? Would you consider this train robber a danger to society? By unjustly appropriating the fruits of other people's labor, thieves make it harder for all honest citizens to support themselves and their families financially. Of course they are a danger to society, and only someone in a position of extreme financial privilege could possibly think otherwise.
- mulmen 3y ago
  Sure, theft is bad. The question is how do we disincentivize it. Risk = punishment * probably of being caught. If the probability of being caught is low then the risk can be justified. If the probability of being caught (and successfully prosecuted) is 1 then even short sentences become effective.
- anigbrowl 3y ago
  Great, lets starting by jailing everyone who commits wage and hour theft, which exceeds the cost of all theft and robberies combined, but which gets little news coverage because it doesn't have dramatic video footage. IT's logical to start with the biggest thieves, no?
  - ExoticPearTree 3y ago
    So why doesn’t it happen considering there is ample evidence of this?
    - anigbrowl 3y ago
      Because prosecutors don't find it sexy, pundits whine about federal enforcement as government overreach, and corporate lawyers often make allegations go away by offering a settlement without an admission of liability.
c22 3y ago
Everyone gets hurt because prices rise to cover losses.
- roywiggins 3y ago
  If you're running numbers you do have to account for the costs of incarceration, too. If 25 year sentences don't actually deter more than 10 year sentences then you're just paying for more prisons for no reason.
  - hackernewds 3y ago
    they most definitely do though
    - topaz0 3y ago
      I'm sure you believe this, but the evidence doesn't support it.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
ExoticPearTree 3y ago
So its ok to steal then? Because hey… its just a few dollars? Are you serious right now?
- annoyingnoob 3y ago
  I'm saying that the punishment needs to fit the crime. People need rehabilitation and opportunities. Check recidivism rates and ask yourself if the system is working.
HenryBemis 3y ago
> Ruining someone's life over a few Amazon packages makes no sense, ethically or financially. Heh really? Have you read Les Miserables? If one is hungry, go ask and SOMEONE will give you a loaf of bread (I cannot count the amount of times someone approach me/the queue in a food court of a mall asking for money and I've bought them some nice soup - and they actually sat down and ate it). Who gives anyone the right to steal something I purchased, and I am expecting it for personal or business purpose? How would you feel if I come to your house every day and steal something - whatever I want and sell it on eBay? Yes you are annoying :)
- red1reaper 3y ago
  Yes, really. It is not even a point of someone stealing because they are hungry, even if they did it just for the sake of stealing or some shit, it still would not be ethical to kill them because of that. Essentially, the life of a robber is immeasurably more valuable than your amazon box, so unless they are a threat to human lives, you do not kill them to defend property. Arresting them is fine, but killing because of stealing is a nono. Other thing would been if the robbers were armed and thus dangerous to the conductor and the like, in those cases, lethal action may be justifiable as a form of self defense.

Georgelemental 3y ago

> Who gets hurt? Would you consider this train robber a danger to society? By unjustly appropriating the fruits of other people's labor, thieves make it harder for all honest citizens to support themselves and their families financially. Of course they are a danger to society, and only someone in a position of extreme financial privilege could possibly think otherwise.

mulmen 3y ago
Sure, theft is bad. The question is how do we disincentivize it. Risk = punishment * probably of being caught. If the probability of being caught is low then the risk can be justified. If the probability of being caught (and successfully prosecuted) is 1 then even short sentences become effective.
anigbrowl 3y ago
Great, lets starting by jailing everyone who commits wage and hour theft, which exceeds the cost of all theft and robberies combined, but which gets little news coverage because it doesn't have dramatic video footage. IT's logical to start with the biggest thieves, no?
- ExoticPearTree 3y ago
  So why doesn’t it happen considering there is ample evidence of this?
  - anigbrowl 3y ago
    Because prosecutors don't find it sexy, pundits whine about federal enforcement as government overreach, and corporate lawyers often make allegations go away by offering a settlement without an admission of liability.

c22 3y ago

Everyone gets hurt because prices rise to cover losses.

roywiggins 3y ago
If you're running numbers you do have to account for the costs of incarceration, too. If 25 year sentences don't actually deter more than 10 year sentences then you're just paying for more prisons for no reason.
- hackernewds 3y ago
  they most definitely do though
  - topaz0 3y ago
    I'm sure you believe this, but the evidence doesn't support it.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

ExoticPearTree 3y ago

So its ok to steal then? Because hey… its just a few dollars? Are you serious right now?

annoyingnoob 3y ago
I'm saying that the punishment needs to fit the crime. People need rehabilitation and opportunities. Check recidivism rates and ask yourself if the system is working.

HenryBemis 3y ago

> Ruining someone's life over a few Amazon packages makes no sense, ethically or financially. Heh really? Have you read Les Miserables? If one is hungry, go ask and SOMEONE will give you a loaf of bread (I cannot count the amount of times someone approach me/the queue in a food court of a mall asking for money and I've bought them some nice soup - and they actually sat down and ate it). Who gives anyone the right to steal something I purchased, and I am expecting it for personal or business purpose? How would you feel if I come to your house every day and steal something - whatever I want and sell it on eBay? Yes you are annoying :)

red1reaper 3y ago
Yes, really. It is not even a point of someone stealing because they are hungry, even if they did it just for the sake of stealing or some shit, it still would not be ethical to kill them because of that. Essentially, the life of a robber is immeasurably more valuable than your amazon box, so unless they are a threat to human lives, you do not kill them to defend property. Arresting them is fine, but killing because of stealing is a nono. Other thing would been if the robbers were armed and thus dangerous to the conductor and the like, in those cases, lethal action may be justifiable as a form of self defense.