4 ms·

The more I learn about various living beings around us, the more I'm convinced that they are all unique, individual people, with unique opinions and desires. Th

The more I learn about various living beings around us, the more I'm convinced that they are all unique, individual people, with unique opinions and desires. They have unique DNA and unique personalities. If you've ever spent an extended period of time with any animal, you know that they all have different personalities and opinions that differ from other animals of the same species, eerily similar to humans. They truly are different people. Some are shy. Some are gregarious. Some are brave. Some are lazy. Some are dumb. Some are mean. They're all different. I don't really know how to reconcile this feeling and I'm very much an omnivore but the thought is inescapable to me. In order for you to keep living, something with a unique personality, opinions, and desires has to die. And that includes plants.

hombre_fatal 3y ago
Is that moral justification for eating or stepping on the sentient being over the plant, just because they’re both alive?
- noman-land 3y ago
  If anything it's moral justification for not doing that. I was pointing out how I kill living things in order to remain alive, even though I think they are unique individual people and it's troubling and confusing to me (because in order to live, another thing has to die).
  - meowkit 3y ago
    Unsolicited, but I just abstract it to energy. I'm an energy well. They are an energy well. I can't hold off the march of entropy if I don't bring in more energy. So I absorb their well into mine. Until we figure out how to integrate photosynthesis / photovoltaics into our bodies its not worth stressing out over the necessary survival process of killing other living things.
    - yreg 3y ago
      Well it is worth thinking about if one energy well suffers and the other one does not. We have very little reason to believe that a bean plant is sentient and experiences suffering to a comparable level like a factory-farmed chicken. It actually seems absurd. (I eat meat, this is not a holy war for me.)
wolverine876 3y ago
Thinking seriously about it: Of course you can try to minimize the sentience of what you eat - wheat < ants < pigs < people - which may be better than nothing, but I'm sure you've thought of that. I heard of a small religion that eats only nuts and fruits, with the belief that the plants want them eaten - they evolved to make the nuts and fruits desireable in order to spread the plant's seeds. It's arguably still exploitation: The plants evolved that way because it is the least bad option among predators.
- odyssey7 3y ago
  If panpsychism is true, then even the molecules our bodies cleave apart during digestion could be sentient.
ChatGTP 3y ago
Alan Watts used to say, it's ok to eat plants and animals, as long as when you cook them, you make something beautiful out of them to respect their sacrifice. It's the least you can do. I feel there is some truth to this. Eventually, your body will be consumed by insects.
- rafaelero 3y ago
  I don't think those beings that were killed care about that.
  - dewbrite 3y ago
    IIRC Alan Watts believed that were are all one being, living every life in sequence, at different points in time. So you would at some point be the same chicken you slaughtered. It's been many years, though, since I listened to him. And I was usually focused on other things. That may have been just a supposition on another point.
  - samatman 3y ago
    They no longer care about things, being dead. Care is for the living.
  - oh_sigh 3y ago
    The mindset is for your own benefit, not the dead thing you're eating.
  - ChatGTP 3y ago
    Well it's an inescapable fact that anything alive is going to die, and likely be eaten. Basically all animals, and even plants (living creatures too) are going to die horrible deaths, being ripped apart by predators etc. We too, will likely be food for worms. The point he is trying to make is to celebrate the life of whatever you're eating by at least making something special out of it an enjoying it rather than turning it into fast food junk which pointlessly ends up in the trash after 10 minutes in the burger warmer or whatever.
    - 3y ago
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
yreg 3y ago
How did you discover plants have unique opinions?
- aaplok 3y ago
  You could try to create an account for them on hn?
- RespectYourself 3y ago
  [flagged]

hombre_fatal 3y ago

Is that moral justification for eating or stepping on the sentient being over the plant, just because they’re both alive?

noman-land 3y ago
If anything it's moral justification for not doing that. I was pointing out how I kill living things in order to remain alive, even though I think they are unique individual people and it's troubling and confusing to me (because in order to live, another thing has to die).
- meowkit 3y ago
  Unsolicited, but I just abstract it to energy. I'm an energy well. They are an energy well. I can't hold off the march of entropy if I don't bring in more energy. So I absorb their well into mine. Until we figure out how to integrate photosynthesis / photovoltaics into our bodies its not worth stressing out over the necessary survival process of killing other living things.
  - yreg 3y ago
    Well it is worth thinking about if one energy well suffers and the other one does not. We have very little reason to believe that a bean plant is sentient and experiences suffering to a comparable level like a factory-farmed chicken. It actually seems absurd. (I eat meat, this is not a holy war for me.)

wolverine876 3y ago

Thinking seriously about it: Of course you can try to minimize the sentience of what you eat - wheat < ants < pigs < people - which may be better than nothing, but I'm sure you've thought of that. I heard of a small religion that eats only nuts and fruits, with the belief that the plants want them eaten - they evolved to make the nuts and fruits desireable in order to spread the plant's seeds. It's arguably still exploitation: The plants evolved that way because it is the least bad option among predators.

odyssey7 3y ago
If panpsychism is true, then even the molecules our bodies cleave apart during digestion could be sentient.

ChatGTP 3y ago

Alan Watts used to say, it's ok to eat plants and animals, as long as when you cook them, you make something beautiful out of them to respect their sacrifice. It's the least you can do. I feel there is some truth to this. Eventually, your body will be consumed by insects.

rafaelero 3y ago
I don't think those beings that were killed care about that.
- dewbrite 3y ago
  IIRC Alan Watts believed that were are all one being, living every life in sequence, at different points in time. So you would at some point be the same chicken you slaughtered. It's been many years, though, since I listened to him. And I was usually focused on other things. That may have been just a supposition on another point.
- samatman 3y ago
  They no longer care about things, being dead. Care is for the living.
- oh_sigh 3y ago
  The mindset is for your own benefit, not the dead thing you're eating.
- ChatGTP 3y ago
  Well it's an inescapable fact that anything alive is going to die, and likely be eaten. Basically all animals, and even plants (living creatures too) are going to die horrible deaths, being ripped apart by predators etc. We too, will likely be food for worms. The point he is trying to make is to celebrate the life of whatever you're eating by at least making something special out of it an enjoying it rather than turning it into fast food junk which pointlessly ends up in the trash after 10 minutes in the burger warmer or whatever.
  - 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

yreg 3y ago

How did you discover plants have unique opinions?

aaplok 3y ago
You could try to create an account for them on hn?
RespectYourself 3y ago
[flagged]