Clojure has a pretty well designed standard library and makes (IMO) a lot of good tradeoff decisions for many kinds of development. That stigma round Java is ki

Clojure has a pretty well designed standard library and makes (IMO) a lot of good tradeoff decisions for many kinds of development. That stigma round Java is kind of exactly my point about the Faustian bargain. You get access to the Java ecosystem but pay the cost of being tied to the Java ecosystem in some capacity. Now, I think the JVM is actually really good. Yes, it's a bit "chunky" (slow startup times, not very ergonomic UX), but it's very performant and it runs pretty much everywhere.