4 ms·

How many millions of people did Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, Mao, Pol Pot kill? They were all atheists. Communist parties like the CCP require all members to be ath

How many millions of people did Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, Mao, Pol Pot kill? They were all atheists. Communist parties like the CCP require all members to be atheists.

manuelabeledo 3y ago
Hitler was very much not an atheist.
0134340 3y ago
None of those were done under the decree of atheism. There was no atheist doctrine giving them authority so you can't blame atheism.
- jackcosgrove 3y ago
  I think the loss of belief in some sort of ultimate judgment did give a certain type of person who is restrained by a fear of punishment rather than any ethical commitment or sympathies, more of a free rein.
  - ChainOfFools 3y ago
    If there is a moral code regarding killing in which atheism comes out as the stronger, more compassionate philosophical system, it would be the one that points this fact out, without an afterlife or any sort of reincarnation this existence is the only one you've got. And to deprive someone therefore of a meagre 90 or 100 years, the only glimpse they'll have out of potentially hundreds of billions of years underscores the preciousness of life and why it should not be taken.
  - 0134340 3y ago
    That's a nice hypothesis but it breaks down when you historically look at just how many people were killed in the name of religiuos jihads, crusades, witch trials (including all the individual people killed for rather benign reasons but against religious doctrine). The religious are just as guilty of using fear to kill others. I will give you that there are surely some who can say fear of gods kept them from killing but in fairness surely there are some who were set free from those gods and realized they didn't have to persecute others just because a religious doctrine says, even if their sympathies said otherwise to the doctrine.
- trelane 3y ago
  > None of those were done under the decree of atheism. This is false. They most certainly were under the "decree of atheism." e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USSR_anti-religious_campaign_(1928%E2%80%931941) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USSR_anti-religious_campaign_(...
  - 0134340 3y ago
    "the decree". There is no single decree in atheism, that was my point. By definition it's many nebulous people with nebulous beliefs in many different places.
    - trelane 3y ago
      > By definition it's many nebulous people with nebulous beliefs in many different places By this definition, then, you have no beef with most religions Additionally, it sure looks like atheism as the state religion and exterminating the unbelievers was decreed by the Soviet authorities.
      - 0134340 3y ago
        Theism tends to be the default in general society so by nature, it is a more congealed group vs the rest. And when we use taxonomy to classify groups, casually in this case and by will of the group, we naturally define a commonality. Having "beef" with a defined group is more sensible than having "beef" with some nebulous other so no, I don't consider your assertions true that these are the same "beefs", if that's what you're implying. In the case you pointed out, the only thing those atheists had in common with other atheists then and now, in general, is just a name. There is no shared doctrine(s), it is defined by a lack of. I'd argue the converse, that it is much harder to be of toxic nature when your whole belief system, or lack thereof, is defined by a lacking as opposed to the what can be the insistence of the ones who posit beliefs.
paulryanrogers 3y ago
Autocrats being bad doesn't mean religion cannot also be bad.
- tomohawk 3y ago
  The claim was that organized religion was the force for the most harm. If that claim was true, than these monsters who caused the most harm would have been part of organized religion.
  - paulryanrogers 3y ago
    Religion has existed far longer and caused more harm than a handful of unaffiliated dictators. In fact it's quite a popular tool for dictators and strong men to manipulate people.

How many millions of people did Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, Mao, Pol Pot kill? They were all atheists. Communist parties like the CCP require all members to be atheists.

manuelabeledo 3y ago

Hitler was very much not an atheist.

0134340 3y ago

None of those were done under the decree of atheism. There was no atheist doctrine giving them authority so you can't blame atheism.

jackcosgrove 3y ago
I think the loss of belief in some sort of ultimate judgment did give a certain type of person who is restrained by a fear of punishment rather than any ethical commitment or sympathies, more of a free rein.
- ChainOfFools 3y ago
  If there is a moral code regarding killing in which atheism comes out as the stronger, more compassionate philosophical system, it would be the one that points this fact out, without an afterlife or any sort of reincarnation this existence is the only one you've got. And to deprive someone therefore of a meagre 90 or 100 years, the only glimpse they'll have out of potentially hundreds of billions of years underscores the preciousness of life and why it should not be taken.
- 0134340 3y ago
  That's a nice hypothesis but it breaks down when you historically look at just how many people were killed in the name of religiuos jihads, crusades, witch trials (including all the individual people killed for rather benign reasons but against religious doctrine). The religious are just as guilty of using fear to kill others. I will give you that there are surely some who can say fear of gods kept them from killing but in fairness surely there are some who were set free from those gods and realized they didn't have to persecute others just because a religious doctrine says, even if their sympathies said otherwise to the doctrine.
trelane 3y ago
> None of those were done under the decree of atheism. This is false. They most certainly were under the "decree of atheism." e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USSR_anti-religious_campaign_(1928%E2%80%931941) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USSR_anti-religious_campaign_(...
- 0134340 3y ago
  "the decree". There is no single decree in atheism, that was my point. By definition it's many nebulous people with nebulous beliefs in many different places.
  - trelane 3y ago
    > By definition it's many nebulous people with nebulous beliefs in many different places By this definition, then, you have no beef with most religions Additionally, it sure looks like atheism as the state religion and exterminating the unbelievers was decreed by the Soviet authorities.
    - 0134340 3y ago
      Theism tends to be the default in general society so by nature, it is a more congealed group vs the rest. And when we use taxonomy to classify groups, casually in this case and by will of the group, we naturally define a commonality. Having "beef" with a defined group is more sensible than having "beef" with some nebulous other so no, I don't consider your assertions true that these are the same "beefs", if that's what you're implying. In the case you pointed out, the only thing those atheists had in common with other atheists then and now, in general, is just a name. There is no shared doctrine(s), it is defined by a lack of. I'd argue the converse, that it is much harder to be of toxic nature when your whole belief system, or lack thereof, is defined by a lacking as opposed to the what can be the insistence of the ones who posit beliefs.

paulryanrogers 3y ago

Autocrats being bad doesn't mean religion cannot also be bad.

tomohawk 3y ago
The claim was that organized religion was the force for the most harm. If that claim was true, than these monsters who caused the most harm would have been part of organized religion.
- paulryanrogers 3y ago
  Religion has existed far longer and caused more harm than a handful of unaffiliated dictators. In fact it's quite a popular tool for dictators and strong men to manipulate people.