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> "Within the Nones, however, atheists and agnostics are more likely to be politically and civically engaged, whereas those who responded that their religion is

by ars 3y ago

> "Within the Nones, however, atheists and agnostics are more likely to be politically and civically engaged, whereas those who responded that their religion is 'nothing in particular' are far less likely to vote." > "Pew also found that, overall, Nones are less likely to volunteer in their local communities than religiously affiliated adults." > "Most Nones believe in God or another higher power, but very few attend any kind of religious service." I'm getting quite a different picture of these "Nones". Rather than being atheist or agnostic, they believe in God, but just don't care about any kind of group or group activities. Almost like they have checked out from social public life. This also connects with surveys about 25% of Gen Z (virtually the same percent as these Nones) are not having sex: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-08-03/young-adults-less-sex-gen-z-millennials-generations-parents-grandparents https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-08-03/young-ad... 31% of Gen Z live with parents: https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/poverty/4405595-almost-a-third-of-gen-z-live-with-parents-or-family/ https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/poverty/4405595... There's also huge declines in people going out. (Although not the 25% that matches the other numbers.) To me this all paints a picture of people who are just tired, depressed, don't care, etc. I would very interested to know if these groups are all the same people, or if it's just a random 25% of any survey that doesn't care much.

usrusr 3y ago
“they believe in God, but just don't care about any kind of group or group activities.“ Is that an American thing? I might be projecting, but over here in Europe (or just Germany?) my impression is that many see some good in organized religion for the community aspects and historical continuity, but all that despite being quite certain that no god actually exists. I don't need to believe that god exists to consider it nice that our cathedrals and village churches aren't just museums, but living museums. Where professionals do give solace to people in need. Even many (most?) of those professionals seem to consider themselves more as custodians of an idea that does not have to be true to be good than as representatives of truth. They certainly don't go around declaring god is dead, but they certainly appear prepared to more on shared nature of belief than assumed truthfulness.
- vba616 3y ago
  >my impression is that many see some good in organized religion for the community aspects and historical continuity, but all that despite being quite certain that no god actually exists Americans don't have a lot of respect for, for example, Jehovah's Witnesses - just look at all the jokes about them knocking on doors.
  - usrusr 3y ago
    Same here, but they are not seen as as example of organized religion at all. More as an example of how religion could be, if the established organizations did not exist. Perhaps it's a particularly lucky situation here in Germany with its almost perfect 50:50 split of Christians between Catholics and Lutherans, which makes neither a fringe group. Fringe groups all too often end up being a little (sometimes a lot) self-radicalizing. It's an interesting observation for sure, regarding differences in attitude to religion.
- 0134340 3y ago
  It sounds like the lack of toxicity of your religious ones there is on par with the lack of toxicity of non-religious there. Here in the US, religious toxicity seems to have increased non-religious toxicity. I suspect that's the case.

by ars 3y ago

usrusr 3y ago

“they believe in God, but just don't care about any kind of group or group activities.“ Is that an American thing? I might be projecting, but over here in Europe (or just Germany?) my impression is that many see some good in organized religion for the community aspects and historical continuity, but all that despite being quite certain that no god actually exists. I don't need to believe that god exists to consider it nice that our cathedrals and village churches aren't just museums, but living museums. Where professionals do give solace to people in need. Even many (most?) of those professionals seem to consider themselves more as custodians of an idea that does not have to be true to be good than as representatives of truth. They certainly don't go around declaring god is dead, but they certainly appear prepared to more on shared nature of belief than assumed truthfulness.

vba616 3y ago
>my impression is that many see some good in organized religion for the community aspects and historical continuity, but all that despite being quite certain that no god actually exists Americans don't have a lot of respect for, for example, Jehovah's Witnesses - just look at all the jokes about them knocking on doors.
- usrusr 3y ago
  Same here, but they are not seen as as example of organized religion at all. More as an example of how religion could be, if the established organizations did not exist. Perhaps it's a particularly lucky situation here in Germany with its almost perfect 50:50 split of Christians between Catholics and Lutherans, which makes neither a fringe group. Fringe groups all too often end up being a little (sometimes a lot) self-radicalizing. It's an interesting observation for sure, regarding differences in attitude to religion.
0134340 3y ago
It sounds like the lack of toxicity of your religious ones there is on par with the lack of toxicity of non-religious there. Here in the US, religious toxicity seems to have increased non-religious toxicity. I suspect that's the case.