4 ms·

If you pick up a box off the road, are you a thief?

sandworm101 3y ago
Yes. The fact that property is unguarded doesn't render it free to any random person. You can legitimately safeguard something, such as moving it off the road, but once you open the box or take the box home, you are a thief. And if the box is sitting on railroad property, you are likely guilty of attempted theft as soon as you pick it up. Also trespassing.
- pi-e-sigma 3y ago
  What you say is not true in the slightest. In a lot of the US jurisdictions you can keep what you found provided you report it to the authorities and nobody claims it in some time frame. In other cases you can take what you found if you found it on your land etc. Lots of various laws apply, depending where you live and what exactly you found. If it was likely to be intentionally left where you found it to be later picked up again, or if it was intentionally abandoned etc. You can even take legal ownership of land that you and the authorities know is not yours provided you use it long enough (adverse possession) and you think a random box left by the side of the road is somehow untouchable?
  - sandworm101 3y ago
    Not for amazon boxes that fall off trucks.
    - londons_explore 3y ago
      Amazon isn't gonna go to the police station to claim their lost box... So actually, this would probably work to legally claim an amazon box.
      - NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
        How would that work? If you find an object with no obvious owner, you either leave it where it lies, or you report it by turning it in somewhere. To the business where you found it, or the Lost & Found department of the transit authority, or the police if all else fails. I don't see anyone calling up the police to say, "Hi, I found <item> and I'll keep it until someone comes over here to claim it!" because the only people coming over will be the police themselves. Every place with a Lost & Found service, and the police, regularly liquidate the unclaimed property. You can find lists and auctions on your civic website if they're selling the stuff. They may also donate it to charity or destroy it. The police or anyone else are not going to stick a tag on a box with your name and number so you can come to claim it after the grace period elapses. That's not how claiming stuff works.
        avar 3y ago
        Yes, why wouldn't it work like that? If a package falls off a truck in front of your house you can pick it up and inform the authorities, who'll in turn inform the owner. If the police or owner care enough to pick it up they can have it, but presumably there's cases where they can't be bothered, then it becomes abandoned property and you can keep it. Just because you find abandoned property you don't need to go out of your way to mail it to the owner, just inform them and they can come to you. The "why not just leave it?" aspect of this is easily defended, if the package e.g. contains electronics they'd be damaged by exposure to the elements.
        dagw 3y ago
        The police or anyone else are not going to stick a tag on a box with your name and number so you can come to claim it after the grace period elapses This of course varies a lot by jurisdiction, but yes, in many places that is exactly what the police will do.
    - lupusreal 3y ago
      We shouldn't even be humoring the premise of boxes falling off trains without thieves deliberately breaking into the trains in the first place.
      - pooper 3y ago
        I don't think it is so clear cut. One hypothetical scenario: 1. Thieves stop a train somehow, spill containers for distraction, run away with valuables. 2. Idiots see stuff lying on the ground and go pick it up causing chaos and confusion. 3. Police arrest some of the idiots. Win win. Thieves go away free and police can claim they arrested some people. This also pads their numbers. Politicians can pretend they were not asleep at the wheel with organized crime under their nose because look only 5% of arrests were organized crime. All we needed to do is arrest more homeless people.
  - solatic 3y ago
    > nobody claims it in some time frame You have some nerve to equivocate between an anonymous object bearing no clues as to its ownership and a box with an address label on it signifying exactly to whom the parcel belongs. How do you blame an owner who likely lives hundreds if not thousands of miles away for not contacting every police precinct along the shipping path instead of expecting someone who finds the parcel to simply return it to the shipping company so that they can finish the job?
    - Mordisquitos 3y ago
      A more generous quote of GP comment provides the answer: > provided you report it to the authorities and nobody claims it in some time frame One would expect that "report it to the authorities" covers that problem. The authorities will take care of either contacting the shipping company and letting them know, instructing you on how to do it yourself, or even take possession of the package to return it themselves.
      - Chris2048 3y ago
        In that case you'd maybe leave the parcel where it is?
    - neilkk 3y ago
      The package in transit belongs to Amazon not to the addressee.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- Chris2048 3y ago
  Not sure if this is same in US, but where I am the railway tracks and a fair bit of land alongside it it the property of the railway and usually appropriately fenced and signposted. A dropped or fallen parcel is highly likely to be located on that land and thus not public. I'd say an anonymous parcel on private land is the concern of the landowner, even with a right-of-way.
  - sandworm101 3y ago
    Amazon boxes are not anonymous. Even without a lable, it is clear to whome it belongs.
londons_explore 3y ago
In my moral view, yes you are if you do not make at least a minimal effort to locate the properties true owner. For example, calling the phone number written on the outside of the box.
- Terr_ 3y ago
  In the legal view too. (At least in the US.)
pixl97 3y ago
The difference in the road and a train track is one of public and private property. The train track is not public property and even walking down it can lead to an arrest for trespassing, much less picking up boxes and carrying them off.
- Terr_ 3y ago
  That particular distinction doesn't really matter: If I drop my wallet in the street and someone finds it and takes all my cash, that's theft regardless of whether it landed on the public road or a short distance away on a private driveway. (Also, I don't think anyone would consider it "finders keepers" if the thief started using the credit-cards!) So it's theft either way, but the private-ness of the zone may mean additional crimes are getting committed, such as trespassing and/or burglary. (Or worse variations of the same crime, depending on how the laws are written.)
  - ttt11199907 3y ago
    Would it still be theft if the money in your wallet was money that you found on the street the day before?
    - Terr_ 3y ago
      Huh? Thieving from a thief is still theft, the same way that raping a rapist is still rape. (Also even when a wily Sicilian complains that "You're trying to kidnap what I've rightfully stolen".)
      - pi-e-sigma 3y ago
        You are wrong. In most jurisdictions theft is defined as taking something away from the legal owner. If what you said was true then taking away your own property from the thief who stole it would also be a theft.
        Terr_ 3y ago
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
jdietrich 3y ago
If that box is sealed, it has someone else's address on it and you make no effort to return it to them, then you are inarguably a thief. It's no different to taking a parcel from someone's porch. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft_by_finding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft_by_finding
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

Yes. The fact that property is unguarded doesn't render it free to any random person. You can legitimately safeguard something, such as moving it off the road, but once you open the box or take the box home, you are a thief. And if the box is sitting on railroad property, you are likely guilty of attempted theft as soon as you pick it up. Also trespassing.

pi-e-sigma 3y ago
What you say is not true in the slightest. In a lot of the US jurisdictions you can keep what you found provided you report it to the authorities and nobody claims it in some time frame. In other cases you can take what you found if you found it on your land etc. Lots of various laws apply, depending where you live and what exactly you found. If it was likely to be intentionally left where you found it to be later picked up again, or if it was intentionally abandoned etc. You can even take legal ownership of land that you and the authorities know is not yours provided you use it long enough (adverse possession) and you think a random box left by the side of the road is somehow untouchable?
- sandworm101 3y ago
  Not for amazon boxes that fall off trucks.
  - londons_explore 3y ago
    Amazon isn't gonna go to the police station to claim their lost box... So actually, this would probably work to legally claim an amazon box.
    - NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
      How would that work? If you find an object with no obvious owner, you either leave it where it lies, or you report it by turning it in somewhere. To the business where you found it, or the Lost & Found department of the transit authority, or the police if all else fails. I don't see anyone calling up the police to say, "Hi, I found <item> and I'll keep it until someone comes over here to claim it!" because the only people coming over will be the police themselves. Every place with a Lost & Found service, and the police, regularly liquidate the unclaimed property. You can find lists and auctions on your civic website if they're selling the stuff. They may also donate it to charity or destroy it. The police or anyone else are not going to stick a tag on a box with your name and number so you can come to claim it after the grace period elapses. That's not how claiming stuff works.
      - avar 3y ago
        Yes, why wouldn't it work like that? If a package falls off a truck in front of your house you can pick it up and inform the authorities, who'll in turn inform the owner. If the police or owner care enough to pick it up they can have it, but presumably there's cases where they can't be bothered, then it becomes abandoned property and you can keep it. Just because you find abandoned property you don't need to go out of your way to mail it to the owner, just inform them and they can come to you. The "why not just leave it?" aspect of this is easily defended, if the package e.g. contains electronics they'd be damaged by exposure to the elements.
      - dagw 3y ago
        The police or anyone else are not going to stick a tag on a box with your name and number so you can come to claim it after the grace period elapses This of course varies a lot by jurisdiction, but yes, in many places that is exactly what the police will do.
  - lupusreal 3y ago
    We shouldn't even be humoring the premise of boxes falling off trains without thieves deliberately breaking into the trains in the first place.
    - pooper 3y ago
      I don't think it is so clear cut. One hypothetical scenario: 1. Thieves stop a train somehow, spill containers for distraction, run away with valuables. 2. Idiots see stuff lying on the ground and go pick it up causing chaos and confusion. 3. Police arrest some of the idiots. Win win. Thieves go away free and police can claim they arrested some people. This also pads their numbers. Politicians can pretend they were not asleep at the wheel with organized crime under their nose because look only 5% of arrests were organized crime. All we needed to do is arrest more homeless people.
- solatic 3y ago
  > nobody claims it in some time frame You have some nerve to equivocate between an anonymous object bearing no clues as to its ownership and a box with an address label on it signifying exactly to whom the parcel belongs. How do you blame an owner who likely lives hundreds if not thousands of miles away for not contacting every police precinct along the shipping path instead of expecting someone who finds the parcel to simply return it to the shipping company so that they can finish the job?
  - Mordisquitos 3y ago
    A more generous quote of GP comment provides the answer: > provided you report it to the authorities and nobody claims it in some time frame One would expect that "report it to the authorities" covers that problem. The authorities will take care of either contacting the shipping company and letting them know, instructing you on how to do it yourself, or even take possession of the package to return it themselves.
    - Chris2048 3y ago
      In that case you'd maybe leave the parcel where it is?
  - neilkk 3y ago
    The package in transit belongs to Amazon not to the addressee.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
Chris2048 3y ago
Not sure if this is same in US, but where I am the railway tracks and a fair bit of land alongside it it the property of the railway and usually appropriately fenced and signposted. A dropped or fallen parcel is highly likely to be located on that land and thus not public. I'd say an anonymous parcel on private land is the concern of the landowner, even with a right-of-way.
- sandworm101 3y ago
  Amazon boxes are not anonymous. Even without a lable, it is clear to whome it belongs.

londons_explore 3y ago

In my moral view, yes you are if you do not make at least a minimal effort to locate the properties true owner. For example, calling the phone number written on the outside of the box.

Terr_ 3y ago
In the legal view too. (At least in the US.)

pixl97 3y ago

The difference in the road and a train track is one of public and private property. The train track is not public property and even walking down it can lead to an arrest for trespassing, much less picking up boxes and carrying them off.

Terr_ 3y ago
That particular distinction doesn't really matter: If I drop my wallet in the street and someone finds it and takes all my cash, that's theft regardless of whether it landed on the public road or a short distance away on a private driveway. (Also, I don't think anyone would consider it "finders keepers" if the thief started using the credit-cards!) So it's theft either way, but the private-ness of the zone may mean additional crimes are getting committed, such as trespassing and/or burglary. (Or worse variations of the same crime, depending on how the laws are written.)
- ttt11199907 3y ago
  Would it still be theft if the money in your wallet was money that you found on the street the day before?
  - Terr_ 3y ago
    Huh? Thieving from a thief is still theft, the same way that raping a rapist is still rape. (Also even when a wily Sicilian complains that "You're trying to kidnap what I've rightfully stolen".)
    - pi-e-sigma 3y ago
      You are wrong. In most jurisdictions theft is defined as taking something away from the legal owner. If what you said was true then taking away your own property from the thief who stole it would also be a theft.
      - Terr_ 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

jdietrich 3y ago

If that box is sealed, it has someone else's address on it and you make no effort to return it to them, then you are inarguably a thief. It's no different to taking a parcel from someone's porch. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft_by_finding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft_by_finding

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]