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Electricity came up around the same time and never stopped - the tech involved with electronics and electric everything has far surpassed that of oil and gas. T

Electricity came up around the same time and never stopped - the tech involved with electronics and electric everything has far surpassed that of oil and gas. There were electric cars at the same time ICEs were being invented. Oil and gas won for selfish reasons.

quickthrowman 3y ago
Electrical generators were powered by fossil fuels (excluding hydro) until nuclear/solar/wind became economical. There would be no electricity without fossil fuels, full stop.
- cmrdporcupine 3y ago
  From WP: "In 1878, the world's first hydroelectric power scheme was developed at Cragside in Northumberland, England, by William Armstrong. It was used to power a single arc lamp in his art gallery.[13] The old Schoelkopf Power Station No. 1, US, near Niagara Falls, began to produce electricity in 1881. The first Edison hydroelectric power station, the Vulcan Street Plant, began operating September 30, 1882, in Appleton, Wisconsin, with an output of about 12.5 kilowatts.[14] By 1886 there were 45 hydroelectric power stations in the United States and Canada; and by 1889 there were 200 in the United States alone.[1]"
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cmrdporcupine 3y ago
O&G won because the energy density is so extremely high.
- leptons 3y ago
  Gasoline may be a lot more energy dense, but ICE are about 20% to 40% efficiency while electric motors are about 60% - 80% efficient. So the differences aren't as great as you might think. If we hadn't just jumped at gasoline and money hadn't flowed so readily towards that tech, there's no telling how far battery tech would be today. A lot further than it is now, I have no doubt. The fact is that big oil has killed off again and again any threat it perceives against its absolute stranglehold on us. We've been stuck with gas engines because of greed, and only now in the 2000s are we considering alternatives because of the damage that's been done by big oil.
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  - defrost 3y ago
    In response to the now deleted response questioning "how can we mine lithium without fossil fuels" ... Rio Tinto (mining since the pre Roman gold mines at Rio Tinto in Spain ... (alledgedly)) are already transitioning to hydrogen and renewables on their iron ore (and other) mines that move ~ 800 million tonne per annum from Western Australia (that's something like 4x greater than peak mining for steel in the US ever reached in a year). Rio Tinto and Komatsu partnering for zero-emission mining https://www.riotinto.com/en/news/releases/2021/rio-tinto-and-komatsu-partnering-for-zero-emission-mining https://www.riotinto.com/en/news/releases/2021/rio-tinto-and... See other headlines on electric trains, automation, green hydrogen (from solar) for aluminium calcination, Fortescue Futures, etc.
  - zmgsabst 3y ago
    We haven’t switched because electricity (37 qBTU) is only a third (100 qBTU) of our energy production, and we don’t know how to triple the electricity grid. Of our electricity production, 60% is fossil fuels (coal, gas, or petroleum). We have zero clue how to replace our total energy consumption (100 qBTU) with our renewable production (15 qBTU). This is all using official EIA numbers: https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/us-energy-facts/ https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/us-energy-facts/ Also, gasoline is 13 MJ/kg; normal batteries are < 1 MJ/kg. That’s a lot of density difference. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density_Extended_Reference_Table https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density_Extended_Refe...

quickthrowman 3y ago

Electrical generators were powered by fossil fuels (excluding hydro) until nuclear/solar/wind became economical. There would be no electricity without fossil fuels, full stop.

cmrdporcupine 3y ago
From WP: "In 1878, the world's first hydroelectric power scheme was developed at Cragside in Northumberland, England, by William Armstrong. It was used to power a single arc lamp in his art gallery.[13] The old Schoelkopf Power Station No. 1, US, near Niagara Falls, began to produce electricity in 1881. The first Edison hydroelectric power station, the Vulcan Street Plant, began operating September 30, 1882, in Appleton, Wisconsin, with an output of about 12.5 kilowatts.[14] By 1886 there were 45 hydroelectric power stations in the United States and Canada; and by 1889 there were 200 in the United States alone.[1]"
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cmrdporcupine 3y ago

O&G won because the energy density is so extremely high.

leptons 3y ago
Gasoline may be a lot more energy dense, but ICE are about 20% to 40% efficiency while electric motors are about 60% - 80% efficient. So the differences aren't as great as you might think. If we hadn't just jumped at gasoline and money hadn't flowed so readily towards that tech, there's no telling how far battery tech would be today. A lot further than it is now, I have no doubt. The fact is that big oil has killed off again and again any threat it perceives against its absolute stranglehold on us. We've been stuck with gas engines because of greed, and only now in the 2000s are we considering alternatives because of the damage that's been done by big oil.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- defrost 3y ago
  In response to the now deleted response questioning "how can we mine lithium without fossil fuels" ... Rio Tinto (mining since the pre Roman gold mines at Rio Tinto in Spain ... (alledgedly)) are already transitioning to hydrogen and renewables on their iron ore (and other) mines that move ~ 800 million tonne per annum from Western Australia (that's something like 4x greater than peak mining for steel in the US ever reached in a year). Rio Tinto and Komatsu partnering for zero-emission mining https://www.riotinto.com/en/news/releases/2021/rio-tinto-and-komatsu-partnering-for-zero-emission-mining https://www.riotinto.com/en/news/releases/2021/rio-tinto-and... See other headlines on electric trains, automation, green hydrogen (from solar) for aluminium calcination, Fortescue Futures, etc.
- zmgsabst 3y ago
  We haven’t switched because electricity (37 qBTU) is only a third (100 qBTU) of our energy production, and we don’t know how to triple the electricity grid. Of our electricity production, 60% is fossil fuels (coal, gas, or petroleum). We have zero clue how to replace our total energy consumption (100 qBTU) with our renewable production (15 qBTU). This is all using official EIA numbers: https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/us-energy-facts/ https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/us-energy-facts/ Also, gasoline is 13 MJ/kg; normal batteries are < 1 MJ/kg. That’s a lot of density difference. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density_Extended_Reference_Table https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density_Extended_Refe...