6 ms·

Stop Using Opera Browser and Opera GX

58 points by cdme 3y ago

flandish 3y ago
Thoughts on alternatives? Open sourced ones? I currently use DuckDuck’s browser and wanted to try Brave but it seems to want to push crypto everywhere.
samyar 3y ago
Is the only reason you guys support Firefox the amount of Chrome users? that is absolutely the dumbest reason to do so
theanonymousone 3y ago
Opera was my browser when I entered the web for the first time in 2001 (the version was 6.x - the only browser with tabs IIRC), and I used it exclusively until late 2010 when Chrome took over. I'm really sad to see Opera in a situation like this.
parl_match 3y ago
Use Firefox or Safari. https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/new/ https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/new/ Don't use Chrome or Chrome-based (Blink) browsers. I have a lot of thoughts on how Firefox fumbled the bag, by the way. They desperately need new leadership.
- sharps1 3y ago
  Until I believe that Mozilla management are committed to making a great browser other than something they use to make money for other things I am out. Firefox issues I have - profiles have no indicator on the taskbar so it isn't easy to see which is which when using multiple profiles at the same time (I don't want to have to use multiple Firefox versions just to know which profile is which on the taskbar). - when clicking an external link in another app I want it to open in whichever profile I used last, like chromium browsers - No pwa's (I don't want to use an external app) - Compact mode being unsupported (when watching media a pwa shows the biggest video view, Firefox non compact the least) - Ads being incorporated - Ads for Mozilla products Things I like - uBO - Recommended extensions so I can have some faith they are checked to be legit. Firefox just feels like a browser stuck in the past. Currently using Brave. I don't like or use the crypto crap or most of their other big features (talk, vpn). I don't love any of our current browser options. Edit: formatting
  - ochronus 3y ago
    Same here - I would absolutely love to use Firefox, but it just doesn't cut it for me. My grievances to add to your list: - No tab groups - No Vertical tabs And no, the extensions providing these just aren't good enough (they don't feel native, they don't sync across devices, and I need to hack to get rid of the tob tab bar)
  - parl_match 3y ago
    I think a lot of your complaints are kinda myopic but symptoms of a larger problem. Why isn't Firefox trying to create an enthusiast's browser - or even plugins for that? Why did Firefox try to make their own phone os? Why isn't there Electron But With Gecko? Why isn't Servo being productized? Why do they need so much upper management? I get that they're doing services in an attempt to gain revenue, but trying to implement something like BAT (without branding it as a currency) would go a long way. Or even a short way (I think BAT kinda sucks), but at least it's something besides _Pocket_!
denoyse 3y ago
I feel using Chrome is just as, if not more problematic.
ktpsns 3y ago
I used opera between 1999 ~ 2008. It was great and tons of features ahead anything else. It was also super fast – it was my favourite browser for older and underpowered systems. It is such a shame they did not open source the browser. I bet many features would be much more present in nowadays browser life. Just to name one, visual tab previews (currently only widespread in MS Edge) or the semantic relationship toolbar (reading <meta rel> tags) would still be amazing today.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
voytec 3y ago
Can't agree more, but my opinion is sentiment-biased. I was a paying customer back when Opera had ads-infested free version (and these were some huge banners on low-resolution screens) and an ads-free paid version. Browser tabs were a truly magnificent invention and made Opera stand out. Shame that the company wasn't able to keep up. They had some really fresh ideas on improving web browsing and it didn't seem like throwing money at walls to check where it sticks. At the time.
overstay8930 3y ago
Honestly have never found a reason to switch from Safari, I trust Apple to make reasonable decisions about my data so I've never had to worry about it outside of normal cybersecurity hygiene (randomized passwords, enabling advanced data protection, etc). I have no idea what people are smoking if they think any company that gives you a free product and makes money on your data would have your privacy as their best interest. I'm not saying they're straight up committing fraud, I'm talking about stuff like Opera collecting this to use for a future business endeavor. It's why I'll never buy an Android phone, Apple is expensive but at the end of the day Apple is already profitable without data collection, but most other companies can't say that, so they can never truly have your best interests in mind when it's a matter of survival.
- kccqzy 3y ago
  Apple does have plenty of data collection. You shouldn't delude yourself into thinking they don't do it. But they are, to first approximation, the least bad among all mainstream choices.
- yabatopia 3y ago
  I don’t trust Apple. Looking at the company’s modus operandi in China - and Hong Kong - tells me more than enough. And by extension, the treatment of Jon Stewart. And I write this in Safari on my iPad. So no, I don’t hate Apple.
lovelyviking 3y ago
>Firefox, Safari, and Vivaldi are all better alternatives, and Vivaldi is built by some former Opera employees, including former Opera Software CEO Jon von Tetzchner.
gunapologist99 3y ago
Obviously everyone has their favorite and browser discussions inevitably turn into flamewars, but TFA is true: at least don't choose Opera. That's really sad considering its history. My favorite is currently Brave, once I turn off the cryptocurrency stuff. I used to prefer Firefox, but it isn't stable for me under significant load; perhaps leaky JS in one of my hundred(s) of open tabs makes things slow to a crawl. I wish that vanilla de-googled chromium like ungoogled or similar would adopt the same upgraded sync functionality that's built into Brave, but for now Brave works fine and I can use all my regular open-source Chrome plugins.
- timeon 3y ago
  If you really need Chromium why not Vivaldi? No need to turn off 'cryptocurrency stuff' there.
  - sharps1 3y ago
    Tried Vivaldi multiple times. Does not stick. Some of the issues I saw are If you use multiple profiles at the same time there is no way to distinguish them on the task bar. I also couldn’t find a tab handling method I like. They also don’t seem to release on a regular cadence which makes me wonder how they are doing security updates. Their UI is not open source.
  - brnt 3y ago
    Also, no source available (only a tarball of their chromium fork) so we'll just have to believe them... In the network analysis by privacyguide or somesuch Vivaldi was among the chattiest browsers.
haunter 3y ago
Wish Apple never killed the Windows version of Safari in 2012. The last 10 years might have played out differently
- cqqxo4zV46cp 3y ago
  Apple is about as good at writing software for Windows as Microsoft is at writing software for macOS. I say this in the most derogatory way possible.
  - Zetobal 3y ago
    Office on MacOS has more features and works better than it's windows equivalent. Some of the best software from microsoft is probably on the mac.
  - SllX 3y ago
    I would actually give Microsoft more credit. Most of what annoys me about Excel on a Mac is because it’s old, like maybe the oldest piece of software still running on the Mac that was written for the Mac and I’m including Apple’s own software. Apple’s software on Windows with the exception of iTunes (which did get worse with 7, but still mostly held up for the remainder of my Windows-using days which didn’t go much further than that) was riddled with arrogance and ran poorly. QuickTime which was a standout piece of software on the Mac was a goddamned joke that nobody wanted to deal with on Windows.
pheatherlite 3y ago
Not seeing a strong technical argument here. Ethical, sure. But headlines urging urgent ceasing use of a browser should have substantial reasoning behind it.
galaxyLogic 3y ago
The (summary) message seems to be: Don't use Opera because "The company is chasing trends and extracting the most money possible from its declining users". But there are no links that would truly show the extent of the alleged unethical behavior. There are no links to court-decisions. What about unethical behaviors by other browser-providers? Isn't Google also "extracting the most money possible from its users"? And Microsoft? Apple's Safari is provided by the company which takes 30% cut from products sold in its app-store and prevents its users from using anything but their app-store.
- gmuslera 3y ago
  Firefox also has been "chasing trends". Pocket, VPN, Relay, OS, and others. Maybe their conception of "trending" is different from Opera's one, and maybe more focused on what they understand of how a browser can be made more useful and the toolset around it. Or not. In any case, the trendy picks by Opera are shadier, and the next one can be harmful for most of their users.
  - rolltrunhert 3y ago
    Firefox needs to have other income than the google search money, that's hardly surprising. So did Opera, if you read the article you would have a clue. They described the Opera Mini moneymaker in the third paragraph already.
    - galaxyLogic 3y ago
      An interesting piece of information from the article is this: "Hindenburg is an investment firm that researches publicly-traded companies and shorts their stocks if they find sufficient evidence of investor fraud before releasing its report. Since Hindenburg directly profits from the company's decline in stock, it's not an impartial source of information "
  - nine_k 3y ago
    The OS, BTW, does relatively well, after it has been discontinued by Mozilla. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefox_OS#Forks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefox_OS#Forks
bluesounddirect 3y ago
Anyone know if we can resurrect the presto engine ? I’de bet there are people here who would use a new presto based browser, am I right ?
- arp242 3y ago
  The source isn't available and purely business-wise Opera would be fools to create a competitor by releasing it. You or I might make that decision regardless for the public good, "business be damned", but I don't see an investor company doing that. And who knows if it's actually any good. It was around form the mid-90s to 2013, and I'm betting the "wtf per minute" is pretty high. Probably better invest in Servo or that thing the SerenityOS people are working on.
  - jszymborski 3y ago
    The presto source did leak a while back, not that it would be legal to fork. https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/software/opera-presto-source-code-leaks-online/ https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/software/opera-presto-...
posttoken 3y ago
I don’t care what you say, it’s still the most comfortable browser due to QoL improvements that the decaying old chrome/firefox could never dream of adding. Like the more convenient file chooser screen for example. Plus it just looks and feels more futuristic looking not stuck in 2011 like chrome/firefox(neither which are truly customizable. Try achieving the sharp no-border radius tab look in chrome without editing the source each time..good luck)
bradgranath 3y ago
Looooooong time ago. Who is still using Opera?? Are you nuts? Also, WebKit is trashy KHTML.
DrSiemer 3y ago
The way Opera GX was advertised, on shady sites with an automatically downloading executable installer in a popup, already made it abundantly clear that this is something that needs to be avoided at all cost.
akasakahakada 3y ago
Opera was great, before they switched the core to Chromium, which absolute suck ass. Now Vivaldi is doing everything better than the original Opera. Tried so many others but none has a bigger setting menu than Vivaldi which means they all lose.
pipeline_peak 3y ago
I’m not worried about the last 1000 people online still using Opera.
pallas_athena 3y ago
Not me getting tear-eyed because I fondly remember Opera Mini as my first mobile browser on Symbian
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
NXNCNJSJ 3y ago
You won't catch me using Opera browser or any of it's software. Opera the company misleads people and garbage of a company.

58 points by cdme 3y ago

Thoughts on alternatives? Open sourced ones? I currently use DuckDuck’s browser and wanted to try Brave but it seems to want to push crypto everywhere.

samyar 3y ago

Is the only reason you guys support Firefox the amount of Chrome users? that is absolutely the dumbest reason to do so

theanonymousone 3y ago

Opera was my browser when I entered the web for the first time in 2001 (the version was 6.x - the only browser with tabs IIRC), and I used it exclusively until late 2010 when Chrome took over. I'm really sad to see Opera in a situation like this.

parl_match 3y ago

Use Firefox or Safari. https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/new/ https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/new/ Don't use Chrome or Chrome-based (Blink) browsers. I have a lot of thoughts on how Firefox fumbled the bag, by the way. They desperately need new leadership.

sharps1 3y ago
Until I believe that Mozilla management are committed to making a great browser other than something they use to make money for other things I am out. Firefox issues I have - profiles have no indicator on the taskbar so it isn't easy to see which is which when using multiple profiles at the same time (I don't want to have to use multiple Firefox versions just to know which profile is which on the taskbar). - when clicking an external link in another app I want it to open in whichever profile I used last, like chromium browsers - No pwa's (I don't want to use an external app) - Compact mode being unsupported (when watching media a pwa shows the biggest video view, Firefox non compact the least) - Ads being incorporated - Ads for Mozilla products Things I like - uBO - Recommended extensions so I can have some faith they are checked to be legit. Firefox just feels like a browser stuck in the past. Currently using Brave. I don't like or use the crypto crap or most of their other big features (talk, vpn). I don't love any of our current browser options. Edit: formatting
- ochronus 3y ago
  Same here - I would absolutely love to use Firefox, but it just doesn't cut it for me. My grievances to add to your list: - No tab groups - No Vertical tabs And no, the extensions providing these just aren't good enough (they don't feel native, they don't sync across devices, and I need to hack to get rid of the tob tab bar)
- parl_match 3y ago
  I think a lot of your complaints are kinda myopic but symptoms of a larger problem. Why isn't Firefox trying to create an enthusiast's browser - or even plugins for that? Why did Firefox try to make their own phone os? Why isn't there Electron But With Gecko? Why isn't Servo being productized? Why do they need so much upper management? I get that they're doing services in an attempt to gain revenue, but trying to implement something like BAT (without branding it as a currency) would go a long way. Or even a short way (I think BAT kinda sucks), but at least it's something besides _Pocket_!

denoyse 3y ago

I feel using Chrome is just as, if not more problematic.

ktpsns 3y ago

I used opera between 1999 ~ 2008. It was great and tons of features ahead anything else. It was also super fast – it was my favourite browser for older and underpowered systems. It is such a shame they did not open source the browser. I bet many features would be much more present in nowadays browser life. Just to name one, visual tab previews (currently only widespread in MS Edge) or the semantic relationship toolbar (reading <meta rel> tags) would still be amazing today.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

voytec 3y ago

Can't agree more, but my opinion is sentiment-biased. I was a paying customer back when Opera had ads-infested free version (and these were some huge banners on low-resolution screens) and an ads-free paid version. Browser tabs were a truly magnificent invention and made Opera stand out. Shame that the company wasn't able to keep up. They had some really fresh ideas on improving web browsing and it didn't seem like throwing money at walls to check where it sticks. At the time.

overstay8930 3y ago

Honestly have never found a reason to switch from Safari, I trust Apple to make reasonable decisions about my data so I've never had to worry about it outside of normal cybersecurity hygiene (randomized passwords, enabling advanced data protection, etc). I have no idea what people are smoking if they think any company that gives you a free product and makes money on your data would have your privacy as their best interest. I'm not saying they're straight up committing fraud, I'm talking about stuff like Opera collecting this to use for a future business endeavor. It's why I'll never buy an Android phone, Apple is expensive but at the end of the day Apple is already profitable without data collection, but most other companies can't say that, so they can never truly have your best interests in mind when it's a matter of survival.

kccqzy 3y ago
Apple does have plenty of data collection. You shouldn't delude yourself into thinking they don't do it. But they are, to first approximation, the least bad among all mainstream choices.
yabatopia 3y ago
I don’t trust Apple. Looking at the company’s modus operandi in China - and Hong Kong - tells me more than enough. And by extension, the treatment of Jon Stewart. And I write this in Safari on my iPad. So no, I don’t hate Apple.

lovelyviking 3y ago

>Firefox, Safari, and Vivaldi are all better alternatives, and Vivaldi is built by some former Opera employees, including former Opera Software CEO Jon von Tetzchner.

gunapologist99 3y ago

Obviously everyone has their favorite and browser discussions inevitably turn into flamewars, but TFA is true: at least don't choose Opera. That's really sad considering its history. My favorite is currently Brave, once I turn off the cryptocurrency stuff. I used to prefer Firefox, but it isn't stable for me under significant load; perhaps leaky JS in one of my hundred(s) of open tabs makes things slow to a crawl. I wish that vanilla de-googled chromium like ungoogled or similar would adopt the same upgraded sync functionality that's built into Brave, but for now Brave works fine and I can use all my regular open-source Chrome plugins.

timeon 3y ago
If you really need Chromium why not Vivaldi? No need to turn off 'cryptocurrency stuff' there.
- sharps1 3y ago
  Tried Vivaldi multiple times. Does not stick. Some of the issues I saw are If you use multiple profiles at the same time there is no way to distinguish them on the task bar. I also couldn’t find a tab handling method I like. They also don’t seem to release on a regular cadence which makes me wonder how they are doing security updates. Their UI is not open source.
- brnt 3y ago
  Also, no source available (only a tarball of their chromium fork) so we'll just have to believe them... In the network analysis by privacyguide or somesuch Vivaldi was among the chattiest browsers.

haunter 3y ago

Wish Apple never killed the Windows version of Safari in 2012. The last 10 years might have played out differently

cqqxo4zV46cp 3y ago
Apple is about as good at writing software for Windows as Microsoft is at writing software for macOS. I say this in the most derogatory way possible.
- Zetobal 3y ago
  Office on MacOS has more features and works better than it's windows equivalent. Some of the best software from microsoft is probably on the mac.
- SllX 3y ago
  I would actually give Microsoft more credit. Most of what annoys me about Excel on a Mac is because it’s old, like maybe the oldest piece of software still running on the Mac that was written for the Mac and I’m including Apple’s own software. Apple’s software on Windows with the exception of iTunes (which did get worse with 7, but still mostly held up for the remainder of my Windows-using days which didn’t go much further than that) was riddled with arrogance and ran poorly. QuickTime which was a standout piece of software on the Mac was a goddamned joke that nobody wanted to deal with on Windows.

pheatherlite 3y ago

Not seeing a strong technical argument here. Ethical, sure. But headlines urging urgent ceasing use of a browser should have substantial reasoning behind it.

galaxyLogic 3y ago

The (summary) message seems to be: Don't use Opera because "The company is chasing trends and extracting the most money possible from its declining users". But there are no links that would truly show the extent of the alleged unethical behavior. There are no links to court-decisions. What about unethical behaviors by other browser-providers? Isn't Google also "extracting the most money possible from its users"? And Microsoft? Apple's Safari is provided by the company which takes 30% cut from products sold in its app-store and prevents its users from using anything but their app-store.

gmuslera 3y ago
Firefox also has been "chasing trends". Pocket, VPN, Relay, OS, and others. Maybe their conception of "trending" is different from Opera's one, and maybe more focused on what they understand of how a browser can be made more useful and the toolset around it. Or not. In any case, the trendy picks by Opera are shadier, and the next one can be harmful for most of their users.
- rolltrunhert 3y ago
  Firefox needs to have other income than the google search money, that's hardly surprising. So did Opera, if you read the article you would have a clue. They described the Opera Mini moneymaker in the third paragraph already.
  - galaxyLogic 3y ago
    An interesting piece of information from the article is this: "Hindenburg is an investment firm that researches publicly-traded companies and shorts their stocks if they find sufficient evidence of investor fraud before releasing its report. Since Hindenburg directly profits from the company's decline in stock, it's not an impartial source of information "
- nine_k 3y ago
  The OS, BTW, does relatively well, after it has been discontinued by Mozilla. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefox_OS#Forks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefox_OS#Forks

bluesounddirect 3y ago

Anyone know if we can resurrect the presto engine ? I’de bet there are people here who would use a new presto based browser, am I right ?

arp242 3y ago
The source isn't available and purely business-wise Opera would be fools to create a competitor by releasing it. You or I might make that decision regardless for the public good, "business be damned", but I don't see an investor company doing that. And who knows if it's actually any good. It was around form the mid-90s to 2013, and I'm betting the "wtf per minute" is pretty high. Probably better invest in Servo or that thing the SerenityOS people are working on.
- jszymborski 3y ago
  The presto source did leak a while back, not that it would be legal to fork. https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/software/opera-presto-source-code-leaks-online/ https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/software/opera-presto-...

posttoken 3y ago

I don’t care what you say, it’s still the most comfortable browser due to QoL improvements that the decaying old chrome/firefox could never dream of adding. Like the more convenient file chooser screen for example. Plus it just looks and feels more futuristic looking not stuck in 2011 like chrome/firefox(neither which are truly customizable. Try achieving the sharp no-border radius tab look in chrome without editing the source each time..good luck)

bradgranath 3y ago

Looooooong time ago. Who is still using Opera?? Are you nuts? Also, WebKit is trashy KHTML.

DrSiemer 3y ago

The way Opera GX was advertised, on shady sites with an automatically downloading executable installer in a popup, already made it abundantly clear that this is something that needs to be avoided at all cost.

akasakahakada 3y ago

Opera was great, before they switched the core to Chromium, which absolute suck ass. Now Vivaldi is doing everything better than the original Opera. Tried so many others but none has a bigger setting menu than Vivaldi which means they all lose.

pipeline_peak 3y ago

I’m not worried about the last 1000 people online still using Opera.

pallas_athena 3y ago

Not me getting tear-eyed because I fondly remember Opera Mini as my first mobile browser on Symbian

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

NXNCNJSJ 3y ago

You won't catch me using Opera browser or any of it's software. Opera the company misleads people and garbage of a company.