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they're testing some new tech that directly uses the sun to desalinate. Really, what's required for the electric grid is ways to store the energy, and not use

they're testing some new tech that directly uses the sun to desalinate. Really, what's required for the electric grid is ways to store the energy, and not use it. For places like Arizona, they may need a whole different type of infrastructure of grey water use. Just piping in water ain't gonna be sustainable.

bryanlarsen 3y ago
Water is a lot easier to store than electricity. Desalinate while the sun is shining to fill a reservoir that you can pull from 24/7.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  True, but it isn't energy, and desal requires firm generation, so you're not using renewables that would've been curtailed but instead competing with load that needs consistent power. Still hopeful considering the cost decline curve of utility scale storage, but it isn't a silver bullet based on solar being free at noon.
  - nosrepa 3y ago
    But water in a reservoir is one of the oldest ways of storing energy.
  - scythe 3y ago
    >desal requires firm generation Most existing plants are designed for this, but it is by no means necessary. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0011916420305403 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S001191642... >This work analyses the long-term performance of a full-scale brackish water reverse osmosis (BWRO) desalination plant that has been working under intermittent operating conditions for 14 years (~9 h d−1).
    - toomuchtodo 3y ago
      TIL. Appreciate the correction.
  - matthewdgreen 3y ago
    You combine the desalination with pumped hydro storage. Or you just deploy it with intermittent power, as the other poster pointed out. https://spectrum.ieee.org/amp/pumped-storage-hydropower-2666647371 https://spectrum.ieee.org/amp/pumped-storage-hydropower-2666...
- mjhay 3y ago
  Why do you need to desalinate it to use it for energy storage? Seems like an unnecessary step that would not increase the gravitational potential energy at all.
  - 57FkMytWjyFu 3y ago
    You really don't want to mix salty water with machines unless you have to.
    - mjhay 3y ago
      It's done routinely in ships and such. It's certainly much easier than the energy and machinery it would take for desalination.
      - 57FkMytWjyFu 3y ago
        No, it isn't easier, it's done on ships for lack of choice.
- mr_toad 3y ago
  > Water is a lot easier to store than electricity. Desalinate while the sun is shining to fill a reservoir that you can pull from 24/7. Cheap to store, expensive to transport. Desalinisation only makes sense if you are near the coast and short of water. Further inland it becomes uneconomical. The Earth is not short on fresh water, the problem is getting fresh water where it is needed.
- nwah1 3y ago
  Pumped storage hydro is a way to store energy, but also can dispense water.
tedk-42 3y ago
> they're testing some new tech that directly uses the sun to desalinate. We should be implementing technologies we have now today rather than banking on something that might or might not pan out. I don't hate the idea of piping water throughout areas or creating artificial enclosed canals of sorts. But then I'm on the side of thinking that we should advance and terraform the planet rather than try to be more one with nature and cut back.
- arcticbull 3y ago
  So a nuclear power plant adjacent to the ocean and a desal plant?
  - zer00eyz 3y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_nuclear_accident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_nuclear_accident We can have safe nuclear power, right after we invent safe people. Till you solve the human problem nukes are bad mmmkay.
    - arcticbull 3y ago
      Nobody died in Fukushima, except in a bungled evacuation of the surrounding area. Maybe one person in the fullness of time. Nuclear power is literally the safest power source in deaths per TWh - right between wind and solar. [1] We have safe nuclear power, so I'm pleased to inform you that your concern was mitigated, about 50 years ago. [edit] Also, I would point out the worst nuclear accident in history killed 4000 people according to USCEAR. The next-worst killed 1. The worst hydro accident in history (Bangqiao Dam) killed 240,000, damaged 5 million homes, displaced 10.5 million people and wiped several cities off the face of the earth - yet for some reason it doesn't share the same perception of intense danger. Interesting. [2] [1] https://ourworldindata.org/safest-sources-of-energy https://ourworldindata.org/safest-sources-of-energy [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_Banqiao_Dam_failure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_Banqiao_Dam_failure
      - 3y ago
jsbisviewtiful 3y ago
> they're testing some new tech that directly uses the sun to desalinate. I'm intrigued. Link?

bryanlarsen 3y ago

Water is a lot easier to store than electricity. Desalinate while the sun is shining to fill a reservoir that you can pull from 24/7.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
True, but it isn't energy, and desal requires firm generation, so you're not using renewables that would've been curtailed but instead competing with load that needs consistent power. Still hopeful considering the cost decline curve of utility scale storage, but it isn't a silver bullet based on solar being free at noon.
- nosrepa 3y ago
  But water in a reservoir is one of the oldest ways of storing energy.
- scythe 3y ago
  >desal requires firm generation Most existing plants are designed for this, but it is by no means necessary. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0011916420305403 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S001191642... >This work analyses the long-term performance of a full-scale brackish water reverse osmosis (BWRO) desalination plant that has been working under intermittent operating conditions for 14 years (~9 h d−1).
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    TIL. Appreciate the correction.
- matthewdgreen 3y ago
  You combine the desalination with pumped hydro storage. Or you just deploy it with intermittent power, as the other poster pointed out. https://spectrum.ieee.org/amp/pumped-storage-hydropower-2666647371 https://spectrum.ieee.org/amp/pumped-storage-hydropower-2666...
mjhay 3y ago
Why do you need to desalinate it to use it for energy storage? Seems like an unnecessary step that would not increase the gravitational potential energy at all.
- 57FkMytWjyFu 3y ago
  You really don't want to mix salty water with machines unless you have to.
  - mjhay 3y ago
    It's done routinely in ships and such. It's certainly much easier than the energy and machinery it would take for desalination.
    - 57FkMytWjyFu 3y ago
      No, it isn't easier, it's done on ships for lack of choice.
mr_toad 3y ago
> Water is a lot easier to store than electricity. Desalinate while the sun is shining to fill a reservoir that you can pull from 24/7. Cheap to store, expensive to transport. Desalinisation only makes sense if you are near the coast and short of water. Further inland it becomes uneconomical. The Earth is not short on fresh water, the problem is getting fresh water where it is needed.
nwah1 3y ago
Pumped storage hydro is a way to store energy, but also can dispense water.

tedk-42 3y ago

> they're testing some new tech that directly uses the sun to desalinate. We should be implementing technologies we have now today rather than banking on something that might or might not pan out. I don't hate the idea of piping water throughout areas or creating artificial enclosed canals of sorts. But then I'm on the side of thinking that we should advance and terraform the planet rather than try to be more one with nature and cut back.

arcticbull 3y ago
So a nuclear power plant adjacent to the ocean and a desal plant?
- zer00eyz 3y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_nuclear_accident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_nuclear_accident We can have safe nuclear power, right after we invent safe people. Till you solve the human problem nukes are bad mmmkay.
  - arcticbull 3y ago
    Nobody died in Fukushima, except in a bungled evacuation of the surrounding area. Maybe one person in the fullness of time. Nuclear power is literally the safest power source in deaths per TWh - right between wind and solar. [1] We have safe nuclear power, so I'm pleased to inform you that your concern was mitigated, about 50 years ago. [edit] Also, I would point out the worst nuclear accident in history killed 4000 people according to USCEAR. The next-worst killed 1. The worst hydro accident in history (Bangqiao Dam) killed 240,000, damaged 5 million homes, displaced 10.5 million people and wiped several cities off the face of the earth - yet for some reason it doesn't share the same perception of intense danger. Interesting. [2] [1] https://ourworldindata.org/safest-sources-of-energy https://ourworldindata.org/safest-sources-of-energy [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_Banqiao_Dam_failure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_Banqiao_Dam_failure
    - 3y ago

jsbisviewtiful 3y ago

> they're testing some new tech that directly uses the sun to desalinate. I'm intrigued. Link?