4 ms·

I know people have swapped out the classic Macs CRTs for an LCD, but I wonder if anyone has tried it with an e-ink display? I've always thought the same thing r

I know people have swapped out the classic Macs CRTs for an LCD, but I wonder if anyone has tried it with an e-ink display? I've always thought the same thing regarding the classic pre-MacOS 8 systems on e-ink.

dredmorbius 3y ago
E-ink's quality and refresh rates are inversely related. Whilst generally it's preferable to use a high-quality mode and slow (0.25 -- 4 Hz) refresh rate, refresh of as high as ~8 -- 16 Hz is possible. Video and animation quality here are not great but they are usable in a pinch. Video of an Onyx BOOX Note displaying video, which I can vouch for from a similar (Max Lumi) device: <https://yewtu.be/watch?v=XRDJv_-wWBI https://yewtu.be/watch?v=XRDJv_-wWBI> For a relatively static GUI display (such as the Classic Mac), e-ink displays are in fact viable, and there are e-ink devices sold specifically as computer monitors: <https://shop.boox.com/products/mira https://shop.boox.com/products/mira> For a demonstration of the capabilities of various e-ink displays (least capable are first), see: <https://yewtu.be/watch?v=KdrMjnYAap4 https://yewtu.be/watch?v=KdrMjnYAap4> I'd want a B&W, line- or halftone-oriented graphics, and relatively static window placement in general, with paginated rather than scroll-based displays (that is, content updates a full screen at a time rather than scrolling). It's not that scrolling isn't possible, it's just that it's really annoying. And there's a reason e-ink devices tend to use line drawings or etchings as demo / sleep screens (see Diaspora* post below for example). I've written numerous times on HN about what the benefits and affordances of e-ink are, e.g.: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31396797 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31396797> <https://diaspora.glasswings.com/posts/638a8d10e041013afba8448a5b29e257 https://diaspora.glasswings.com/posts/638a8d10e041013afba844...>
- dredmorbius 3y ago
  Clarifying my first point: it's often possible to select amongst a range of quality/refresh options for a given display, either globally or for a given app (as with an Android e-ink tablet). In which case, higher display quality (more pixels, sharper boundaries, deeper blacks, whiter whites, and less ghosting) tends to come with slower display response. When you're reading static text, page-by-page, that's an acceptable trade-off. If you want to scroll, zoom, or pan through content, or are looking at animations or video, you'll want lower definition & sharpness but higher refresh. And remember that once an image is displayed, it will persist indefinitely without further power to the display.
DerekL 3y ago
You can't show animations with e-ink, because the refresh rate is very low. How would you even show a mouse pointer?
- dredmorbius 3y ago
  Your information is badly out of date: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39198053 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39198053>
JKCalhoun 3y ago
Yeah, too bad that eInk can't handle the fast refresh needed for, as was pointed, out, even a moving cursor. Knowing this limitation though, I created created a kind of eInk calendar instead - as a love letter to my Mac Plus from the 90's. https://github.com/EngineersNeedArt/SystemSix https://github.com/EngineersNeedArt/SystemSix
- dredmorbius 3y ago
  Your information is badly out of date: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39198053 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39198053>

dredmorbius 3y ago

E-ink's quality and refresh rates are inversely related. Whilst generally it's preferable to use a high-quality mode and slow (0.25 -- 4 Hz) refresh rate, refresh of as high as ~8 -- 16 Hz is possible. Video and animation quality here are not great but they are usable in a pinch. Video of an Onyx BOOX Note displaying video, which I can vouch for from a similar (Max Lumi) device: <https://yewtu.be/watch?v=XRDJv_-wWBI https://yewtu.be/watch?v=XRDJv_-wWBI> For a relatively static GUI display (such as the Classic Mac), e-ink displays are in fact viable, and there are e-ink devices sold specifically as computer monitors: <https://shop.boox.com/products/mira https://shop.boox.com/products/mira> For a demonstration of the capabilities of various e-ink displays (least capable are first), see: <https://yewtu.be/watch?v=KdrMjnYAap4 https://yewtu.be/watch?v=KdrMjnYAap4> I'd want a B&W, line- or halftone-oriented graphics, and relatively static window placement in general, with paginated rather than scroll-based displays (that is, content updates a full screen at a time rather than scrolling). It's not that scrolling isn't possible, it's just that it's really annoying. And there's a reason e-ink devices tend to use line drawings or etchings as demo / sleep screens (see Diaspora* post below for example). I've written numerous times on HN about what the benefits and affordances of e-ink are, e.g.: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31396797 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31396797> <https://diaspora.glasswings.com/posts/638a8d10e041013afba8448a5b29e257 https://diaspora.glasswings.com/posts/638a8d10e041013afba844...>

dredmorbius 3y ago
Clarifying my first point: it's often possible to select amongst a range of quality/refresh options for a given display, either globally or for a given app (as with an Android e-ink tablet). In which case, higher display quality (more pixels, sharper boundaries, deeper blacks, whiter whites, and less ghosting) tends to come with slower display response. When you're reading static text, page-by-page, that's an acceptable trade-off. If you want to scroll, zoom, or pan through content, or are looking at animations or video, you'll want lower definition & sharpness but higher refresh. And remember that once an image is displayed, it will persist indefinitely without further power to the display.

DerekL 3y ago

You can't show animations with e-ink, because the refresh rate is very low. How would you even show a mouse pointer?

dredmorbius 3y ago
Your information is badly out of date: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39198053 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39198053>

JKCalhoun 3y ago

Yeah, too bad that eInk can't handle the fast refresh needed for, as was pointed, out, even a moving cursor. Knowing this limitation though, I created created a kind of eInk calendar instead - as a love letter to my Mac Plus from the 90's. https://github.com/EngineersNeedArt/SystemSix https://github.com/EngineersNeedArt/SystemSix

dredmorbius 3y ago
Your information is badly out of date: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39198053 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39198053>