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One of our two political parties here has the stated goal to make paying taxes as difficult and manual a process as possible in order to turn public sentiment a

by slg 3y ago

One of our two political parties here has the stated goal to make paying taxes as difficult and manual a process as possible in order to turn public sentiment against the very idea of taxes. The belief is that if paying your taxes was automatic and easy, there would be little pushback to tax increases.

hot_gril 3y ago
Where do they state that? Higher taxes aren't really more complicated to pay.
- bluGill 3y ago
  If taxes are simple you don't realize how much they are. These people want everyone to write a check on April 15th every year for the full amount - having to come up with more than $10,000 on short notice is very hard for most people. They don't like withholding because people pay attention to the bottom line and so they don't notice the hundreds of dollars missing form each pay check.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    It's very unlikely that someone with a mostly salary W-2 with even remotely sane deductions is going to get a $10,000 bill out of the blue.
    - bluGill 3y ago
      If there was no withholding that is a reasonable bill for a lot of people. If you made $70,000 then that is about what your taxes deductions like 401k)
      - ghaff 3y ago
        Well, yes, if there's no withholding and if withholding is not an option someone sort of needs to be aware of that fact and even be paying estimated quarterly taxes. It shouldn't be a surprise and there may even be a penalty past some point.
        bluGill 3y ago
        The point is there are some people who want to make that the default. No withholding, no quarterly estimated taxes. Every April 15th you pay the IRS your full tax bill. it would make people aware of just how much they are paying.
- somekyle2 3y ago
  Grover Norquist, prominent conservative voice and head of Americans For Tax Reform has talked about the danger of government provided filing services, namely that he believes it leads ultimately to increased taxes. The idea is that if the govt is saying how much you made, how much you owe, and just giving you a place to click "OK", it's on the tax payer to do the math to disagree, and the govt has incentive to find you owe more. And, taxes are less visible and easier, so if taxes go up or policies change, all the americans just confirming and hitting "Pay" aren't going to notice or be mad. Or, something like that.
- slg 3y ago
  >Where do they state that? It is a policy that goes back decades. Reagan was notably adamant that "Taxes should hurt" to the point that he opposed the very idea of withholding taxes. He was the reason that California was the last state with an income tax to start automatically withholding taxes. >Higher taxes aren't really more complicated to pay. That isn't the argument. The idea is that the more painful the tax paying process is, the more likely Americans will oppose the very idea of taxes. It is very simple form of Pavlovian conditioning. Preparing taxes is a painful and awful process and people naturally associate that with the very idea of taxes.
  - hot_gril 3y ago
    Got it, thanks

by slg 3y ago

hot_gril 3y ago

Where do they state that? Higher taxes aren't really more complicated to pay.

bluGill 3y ago
If taxes are simple you don't realize how much they are. These people want everyone to write a check on April 15th every year for the full amount - having to come up with more than $10,000 on short notice is very hard for most people. They don't like withholding because people pay attention to the bottom line and so they don't notice the hundreds of dollars missing form each pay check.
- ghaff 3y ago
  It's very unlikely that someone with a mostly salary W-2 with even remotely sane deductions is going to get a $10,000 bill out of the blue.
  - bluGill 3y ago
    If there was no withholding that is a reasonable bill for a lot of people. If you made $70,000 then that is about what your taxes deductions like 401k)
    - ghaff 3y ago
      Well, yes, if there's no withholding and if withholding is not an option someone sort of needs to be aware of that fact and even be paying estimated quarterly taxes. It shouldn't be a surprise and there may even be a penalty past some point.
      - bluGill 3y ago
        The point is there are some people who want to make that the default. No withholding, no quarterly estimated taxes. Every April 15th you pay the IRS your full tax bill. it would make people aware of just how much they are paying.
somekyle2 3y ago
Grover Norquist, prominent conservative voice and head of Americans For Tax Reform has talked about the danger of government provided filing services, namely that he believes it leads ultimately to increased taxes. The idea is that if the govt is saying how much you made, how much you owe, and just giving you a place to click "OK", it's on the tax payer to do the math to disagree, and the govt has incentive to find you owe more. And, taxes are less visible and easier, so if taxes go up or policies change, all the americans just confirming and hitting "Pay" aren't going to notice or be mad. Or, something like that.
slg 3y ago
>Where do they state that? It is a policy that goes back decades. Reagan was notably adamant that "Taxes should hurt" to the point that he opposed the very idea of withholding taxes. He was the reason that California was the last state with an income tax to start automatically withholding taxes. >Higher taxes aren't really more complicated to pay. That isn't the argument. The idea is that the more painful the tax paying process is, the more likely Americans will oppose the very idea of taxes. It is very simple form of Pavlovian conditioning. Preparing taxes is a painful and awful process and people naturally associate that with the very idea of taxes.
- hot_gril 3y ago
  Got it, thanks