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I understand that a lot of gas station revenue comes from selling stuff other than gas. I am somewhat surprised that gas stations didn't jump on EV chargers imm

I understand that a lot of gas station revenue comes from selling stuff other than gas. I am somewhat surprised that gas stations didn't jump on EV chargers immediately, since charging takes a while and those customers might be more likely to make other purchases while waiting.

jewayne 3y ago
Most of the Superchargers in the Cleveland area are at gas stations -- Sheetz, in particular.
logifail 3y ago
> I am somewhat surprised that gas stations didn't jump on EV chargers immediately, since charging takes a while and those customers might be more likely to make other purchases while waiting At least in this part of Europe, there is simply not enough space at most gas stations for any significant proportion of vehicles to spend more than five minutes there.
- HillRat 3y ago
  One medium to long-term strategy for most of Europe I've seen discussed is to move charging to the streetside and connect it in as a residential utility play with consumer ties -- in other words, chargers that could be used in "residential mode," where the resident just charges their vehicle directly, or in "consumer mode," where non-residents swipe a credit card and the resident gets an additional credit on the power usage.
  - logifail 3y ago
    > to move charging to the streetside My experience is that roadside parking outside residential property is in pretty short supply across much of Europe too.
HillRat 3y ago
That was definitely the thinking behind the Buc-ee's/Tesla partnership; Buc-ee's makes a huge amount of backcourt revenue including QSR sales, so it's a very natural extension for them. I posited to our retail fuels clients several years ago that if they didn't develop a long-term EV strategy around backcourt partnership and sales they risked losing to a Tesla retail strategy, so I'm surprised that Tesla never split off a separate BU to directly attack that space.
lxm 3y ago
It's probably lower barrier to entry - as soon as any generic shopping plaza nearby sets up a few chargers, customers will probably choose hanging around Starbucks or a grocery store rather than a gas station.
tzs 3y ago
I'd guess the hang up is volume. Right now there are two types of people that go to those stations. 1. People there to put gas in their car, and 2. People there specifically to visit the convenience store. Gas stations tend to be in places that won't get a lot of foot traffic, so what is going to mostly determine how many potential customers they see a day is how many cars they can accommodate at once and how long those cars stay. Group #2, the people specifically there for the convenience store, are both very likely to buy something and not likely to stay long. Group #1, the people there for gas, may or may not also buy something from the convenience store. If they do, great. If they don't at least they won't stay long because gas powered cars "charge" fast. A reasonably well maintained gas pump is over an order of magnitude faster than EV chargers. If they add EV charging the EV charging area will probably have to either take space from the gas pumps or to take space from the place group #2 parks. If they take the space from group #2 parking, they are replacing people highly likely to buy with people less likely to buy and more likely to stay around longer. It is hard to see how this could ever be a win for the store. If they take the space from the gas pumps then they are replacing fast gas fill ups with slow EV fill ups, which cuts down the number of potential convenience store customers. Maybe EV drivers will be more likely to decide to buy something in that extra time, but I suspect that won't be a big effect. I'd bet people who buy from the convenience store just because they are killing time waiting for EV charging will mostly just make small purchases. On the other hand, it really is #2 that provides most of the profit. It is possible that group #1 is a sufficiently small contribution that it doesn't matter if replacing some gas pumps with EV charges lowers convenience store sales. Sometimes I think selling gas at those stores is mostly for awareness. I'd guess that a lot of the people in group #2 are only there because at some earlier time they were in group #1 there. They decide on Friday or Saturday night that they need to get some beer or cigarettes or lottery tickets and remember, and because they got gas there earlier that week they think of the convenience store. Putting in a couple EV chargers in place of a couple gas pumps might turn some EV drivers into group #2 people who otherwise might have forgotten about the convenience store.
- ajmurmann 3y ago
  Interesting. It would have never occurred to me that group 2 even exists, but in hindsight it seems obvious.

jewayne 3y ago

Most of the Superchargers in the Cleveland area are at gas stations -- Sheetz, in particular.

logifail 3y ago

> I am somewhat surprised that gas stations didn't jump on EV chargers immediately, since charging takes a while and those customers might be more likely to make other purchases while waiting At least in this part of Europe, there is simply not enough space at most gas stations for any significant proportion of vehicles to spend more than five minutes there.

HillRat 3y ago
One medium to long-term strategy for most of Europe I've seen discussed is to move charging to the streetside and connect it in as a residential utility play with consumer ties -- in other words, chargers that could be used in "residential mode," where the resident just charges their vehicle directly, or in "consumer mode," where non-residents swipe a credit card and the resident gets an additional credit on the power usage.
- logifail 3y ago
  > to move charging to the streetside My experience is that roadside parking outside residential property is in pretty short supply across much of Europe too.

HillRat 3y ago

That was definitely the thinking behind the Buc-ee's/Tesla partnership; Buc-ee's makes a huge amount of backcourt revenue including QSR sales, so it's a very natural extension for them. I posited to our retail fuels clients several years ago that if they didn't develop a long-term EV strategy around backcourt partnership and sales they risked losing to a Tesla retail strategy, so I'm surprised that Tesla never split off a separate BU to directly attack that space.

lxm 3y ago

It's probably lower barrier to entry - as soon as any generic shopping plaza nearby sets up a few chargers, customers will probably choose hanging around Starbucks or a grocery store rather than a gas station.

tzs 3y ago

I'd guess the hang up is volume. Right now there are two types of people that go to those stations. 1. People there to put gas in their car, and 2. People there specifically to visit the convenience store. Gas stations tend to be in places that won't get a lot of foot traffic, so what is going to mostly determine how many potential customers they see a day is how many cars they can accommodate at once and how long those cars stay. Group #2, the people specifically there for the convenience store, are both very likely to buy something and not likely to stay long. Group #1, the people there for gas, may or may not also buy something from the convenience store. If they do, great. If they don't at least they won't stay long because gas powered cars "charge" fast. A reasonably well maintained gas pump is over an order of magnitude faster than EV chargers. If they add EV charging the EV charging area will probably have to either take space from the gas pumps or to take space from the place group #2 parks. If they take the space from group #2 parking, they are replacing people highly likely to buy with people less likely to buy and more likely to stay around longer. It is hard to see how this could ever be a win for the store. If they take the space from the gas pumps then they are replacing fast gas fill ups with slow EV fill ups, which cuts down the number of potential convenience store customers. Maybe EV drivers will be more likely to decide to buy something in that extra time, but I suspect that won't be a big effect. I'd bet people who buy from the convenience store just because they are killing time waiting for EV charging will mostly just make small purchases. On the other hand, it really is #2 that provides most of the profit. It is possible that group #1 is a sufficiently small contribution that it doesn't matter if replacing some gas pumps with EV charges lowers convenience store sales. Sometimes I think selling gas at those stores is mostly for awareness. I'd guess that a lot of the people in group #2 are only there because at some earlier time they were in group #1 there. They decide on Friday or Saturday night that they need to get some beer or cigarettes or lottery tickets and remember, and because they got gas there earlier that week they think of the convenience store. Putting in a couple EV chargers in place of a couple gas pumps might turn some EV drivers into group #2 people who otherwise might have forgotten about the convenience store.

ajmurmann 3y ago
Interesting. It would have never occurred to me that group 2 even exists, but in hindsight it seems obvious.