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Right now fast chargers are very expensive to build and install, and the return on investment just from selling electricity isn't great unless it's actually use

Right now fast chargers are very expensive to build and install, and the return on investment just from selling electricity isn't great unless it's actually used many times per day. I think a lot of these charging providers make most of their money by installing the charger when it's paid for by grants, businesses, etc. rather than from the ongoing business of charging cars. Tesla reduces up front costs with vertical integration instead of buying chargers from third party suppliers like other charging companies do. They also have their own fleet of cars and data on where chargers are needed, so most of their chargers get decent utilization. That said I think part of why Tesla is doing deals to get more cars on their network is to increase that utilization even farther at more remote chargers that might currently be losing money on their books.

com2kid 3y ago
> Right now fast chargers are very expensive to build and install, and the return on investment just from selling electricity isn't great unless it's actually used many times per day. It is funny, I have a friend running a fast charger business in another country, and he is making plenty of money w/o needing any government grants to get started. They are vertically integrated from doing HW design, software (they tried outsourcing that, it went badly), to managing physical locations. They are also expanding slowly and only doing installations where it makes financial sense.
- stetrain 3y ago
  Sounds like they are doing things right. Do they also provide any other amenities that might drive revenue like vending, coffee, etc?
  - com2kid 3y ago
    > Do they also provide any other amenities that might drive revenue like vending, coffee, etc? Full meals. :-D IIRC they sublease land to small restaurants to open food stalls.
    - stetrain 3y ago
      So they have incentive to keep the chargers and site in good shape because it impacts their charging business as well as the food sales. A lot of chargers in the US are just dropped in the back of a parking lot somewhere. Once the provider has gotten the installation check then they don't have much ongoing incentive to keep it working well. Or even if they want to, keeping the hardware and software working well is tougher when they aren't vertically integrated.

com2kid 3y ago

> Right now fast chargers are very expensive to build and install, and the return on investment just from selling electricity isn't great unless it's actually used many times per day. It is funny, I have a friend running a fast charger business in another country, and he is making plenty of money w/o needing any government grants to get started. They are vertically integrated from doing HW design, software (they tried outsourcing that, it went badly), to managing physical locations. They are also expanding slowly and only doing installations where it makes financial sense.

stetrain 3y ago
Sounds like they are doing things right. Do they also provide any other amenities that might drive revenue like vending, coffee, etc?
- com2kid 3y ago
  > Do they also provide any other amenities that might drive revenue like vending, coffee, etc? Full meals. :-D IIRC they sublease land to small restaurants to open food stalls.
  - stetrain 3y ago
    So they have incentive to keep the chargers and site in good shape because it impacts their charging business as well as the food sales. A lot of chargers in the US are just dropped in the back of a parking lot somewhere. Once the provider has gotten the installation check then they don't have much ongoing incentive to keep it working well. Or even if they want to, keeping the hardware and software working well is tougher when they aren't vertically integrated.