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There are a bunch of ideas that are more core and strongly supported (language is innate) which you use to explore more tenuous ideas about what the implication

There are a bunch of ideas that are more core and strongly supported (language is innate) which you use to explore more tenuous ideas about what the implications are and how they specifically manifest. Linguistics is an extremely nascent field compared to other sciences, Chomsky calls our stage of understanding "pre-Galilean", no one has claimed to have solved the basic questions yet so it isn't surprising that anything other than the core ideas are in constant flux. I haven't seen a good counter argument to the core ideas of universal grammar (or the minimalist program) and to refute an idea you need to actually present a counter-argument not simply say some sub-hypothesis has been refuted in the past so every fundamental idea has been refuted. See also https://ling.auf.net/lingbuzz/007363 https://ling.auf.net/lingbuzz/007363 The SciAM article you linked doesn't understand the arguments Chomsky makes when "refuting" them (e.g. they erroneously say that superficial differences between languages show that there is no universal grammar).

compsciphd 3y ago
I thought I read an article one that some very untouched tribes (ala amazon?) have fundamental different ways of communicating that undercut Chomsky's notions of universal grammer. Which the SciAm article glances on, but doesn't really go into any depth.
- foobarqux 3y ago
  That's Piraha and Daniel Everett's work. Even assuming the results are correct (that Piraha doesn't use recursion) that doesn't demonstrate anything relevant. What you want to show is that Piraha people don't have the ability for recursion (i.e. they are an example of people without this innate language faculty), not that they don't apply it. I don't think anyone believes that if you take a Piraha newborn to New York they wouldn't learn English. Chomsky explains it himself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6Lk79bnUbM&t=1386s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6Lk79bnUbM&t=1386s or here https://youtu.be/c6MU5zQwtT4?si=A9t8d0oXV4dOLZTe&t=3008 https://youtu.be/c6MU5zQwtT4?si=A9t8d0oXV4dOLZTe&t=3008

compsciphd 3y ago

I thought I read an article one that some very untouched tribes (ala amazon?) have fundamental different ways of communicating that undercut Chomsky's notions of universal grammer. Which the SciAm article glances on, but doesn't really go into any depth.

foobarqux 3y ago
That's Piraha and Daniel Everett's work. Even assuming the results are correct (that Piraha doesn't use recursion) that doesn't demonstrate anything relevant. What you want to show is that Piraha people don't have the ability for recursion (i.e. they are an example of people without this innate language faculty), not that they don't apply it. I don't think anyone believes that if you take a Piraha newborn to New York they wouldn't learn English. Chomsky explains it himself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6Lk79bnUbM&t=1386s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6Lk79bnUbM&t=1386s or here https://youtu.be/c6MU5zQwtT4?si=A9t8d0oXV4dOLZTe&t=3008 https://youtu.be/c6MU5zQwtT4?si=A9t8d0oXV4dOLZTe&t=3008