7 ms·

An open-source browser engine written in Rust

120 points by keepamovin 3y ago

keepamovin 3y ago
Now passes 80% WPT as of Jan 10 2024: https://wpt.servo.org/ https://wpt.servo.org/
- Aissen 3y ago
  I think it only applies to the focus area, otherwise it's at 55.7% (which is already quite impressive!).
systems 3y ago
is it correct to say, that rust was created to create servo
- alkonaut 3y ago
  Afaik it existed on the prototype stage before Mozilla investigated using it because it fit their purpose. But I think it's fair to say we know about Rust today because of Servo.
- gtirloni 3y ago
  I wouldn't say so. It seems this was a personal itch that Mozilla's developer Graydon Hoare wanted to scratch and then Mozilla saw potentional and started sponsoring it for Servo. https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/02/14/1067869/rust-worlds-fastest-growing-programming-language/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/02/14/1067869/rust-wor...
  - Sammi 3y ago
    So Graydon Hoare made the initial design and implementation, but it was significantly redesigned and reimplemented after it was picked up by the wider Mozilla organisation for use in browser development. So Rust as we know it today was definitely made for browser development at Mozilla. But that means both Firefox and Servo, not just Servo.
lagniappe 3y ago
[flagged]
- ramon156 3y ago
  Oh no! Anyway
thrdbndndn 3y ago
Can someone elaborate the relationship between Servo and Firefox? When it firstly came I thought it's going to be the next engine used in Firefox (replacing Gecko), but it apparently was not the case. I then heard that servo would be part of Firefox, replacing certain components (layout rendering?), but this repo seems to imply that Servo is a standalone engine. Edit: found a reddit post [1], which cleared up what Firefox wanted/got from Servo project. But it's now even more confusing that what the purpose of current Servo project has. If building a full browser engine from scratch is deemed to hard even with Mozilla's financial support (according to this post), now without, it's hard to imagine anything substantive would be done with this project in future. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/yvd1f0/whats_the_status_of_servo_right_now/ https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/yvd1f0/whats_the_s...
- jsheard 3y ago
  My understanding is that it was going to be the new core of Firefox, until the mass Mozilla layoff of 2020 where the Servo team was completely gutted.
  - tristan957 3y ago
    This is incorrect. Servo was a test bed for new architectural changes within Firefox. Some of them made their way into Firefox, like Stylo and WebRender.
    - MatthewPhillips 3y ago
      I don't think that was the plan from the start. There definitely was talk that it would eventually replace Gecko, not just be used for parts.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
thih9 3y ago
For details on how parts of Servo were moved to FF, see Quantum: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gecko_(software)#Quantum https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gecko_(software)#Quantum > It includes numerous improvements to Gecko, largely incorporated from the experimental Servo project.
ryukoposting 3y ago
Interesting that the last git tag was pushed in 2019, and most of the Cargo.toml files show version "0.0.1."
- ThisIsMyAltAcct 3y ago
  As another commenter points out, Mozilla laid off almost the entire Servo team a few years ago
  - speps 3y ago
    It's being picked up again though: https://www.theregister.com/2023/09/27/servo_returns/ https://www.theregister.com/2023/09/27/servo_returns/
- bouncycastle 3y ago
  It's a little rusty
- WinstonSmith84 3y ago
  don't know, there was a downtime in 2021 and 22 but since 2023, contributions look back to where it was before .. https://github.com/servo/servo/graphs/contributors https://github.com/servo/servo/graphs/contributors
computerfriend 3y ago
[flagged]
- jasonjmcghee 3y ago
  imo should say "install rust" as a step and show the command. We probably shouldn't condition folks to blindly paste/execute, especially shell scripts from the web- but it sure is easy
- digdigdag 3y ago
  You can examine the contents of the shell script yourself -- but how is this any different from running the rest of the application without examining the source? Do you just draw some arbitrary line to say, "running easily readable shell scripts is bad, but compiling and running code I have never looked at or completely understand is okay."? Really the only logical answer here is to adopt a zero trust security model and just assume every line of code is compromised. Run it in a VM, in a container, firewall it, jail it, sandbox it, etc. Otherwise you're whispering sweet nothings to yourself if you believe piping unknown scripts to shell is the most vulnerable thing you can do here.
  - computerfriend 3y ago
    It's because I have an expectation that running the actual code won't change system-wide state and running the pipe-into-shell command will.
jasonjmcghee 3y ago
Always shade thrown at "in Rust" and I don't like how it's become buzz-wordy, but here it seems appropriate- not because "oh I might use this browser because it's written in rust" more like a great resource to understand how so many various features and functionality are implemented and fit together in a particular language that might be of interest. If this were written in D or Zig or something other than C++, I think that's unique and worth mentioning. What a cool project to be open source. Browsers do a lot of crazy stuff.
- datenwolf 3y ago
  Fun fact: Rust's development saw significant traction and support by Mozilla in the first place to be used for the development of Servo. Or in other words, the eventual development of Servo was, what motivated the development of of Rust from pet project into what it is today.
- pydry 3y ago
  It is a signal of quality. There are entire classes of bug which are much less likely to occur in apps written in rust. As with all signals, it is neither a guarantee nor entirely meaningless.
iso8859-1 3y ago
Previously: * Servo to Advance in 2023 (300 points), Jan 2023: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34400214 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34400214 * Servo, the parallel browser engine written in Rust (340 points), May 2023: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36092852 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36092852 * This year in Servo (265 points), Dec 2023: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38681463 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38681463 * What's the future of Servo? (578 points), Aug 2020: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24156504 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24156504 * Servo's new home (1025 points), Nov 2020: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25125325 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25125325
- dabber 3y ago
  See also: * What's the future of Servo? (578 points) Aug 14, 2020 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24156504 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24156504 * Servo Engine contributions this year (238 points) July 1, 2021 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27700836 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27700836 * Can Servo be a clean and modern reference platform for developers? (62 points) Aug 27, 2015 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10129518 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10129518
MightyBuzzard 3y ago
[dead]
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
mariusor 3y ago
I take umbrage with the qualificative of "An"... the title should say "THE". :)

120 points by keepamovin 3y ago

keepamovin 3y ago

Now passes 80% WPT as of Jan 10 2024: https://wpt.servo.org/ https://wpt.servo.org/

Aissen 3y ago
I think it only applies to the focus area, otherwise it's at 55.7% (which is already quite impressive!).

systems 3y ago

is it correct to say, that rust was created to create servo

alkonaut 3y ago
Afaik it existed on the prototype stage before Mozilla investigated using it because it fit their purpose. But I think it's fair to say we know about Rust today because of Servo.
gtirloni 3y ago
I wouldn't say so. It seems this was a personal itch that Mozilla's developer Graydon Hoare wanted to scratch and then Mozilla saw potentional and started sponsoring it for Servo. https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/02/14/1067869/rust-worlds-fastest-growing-programming-language/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/02/14/1067869/rust-wor...
- Sammi 3y ago
  So Graydon Hoare made the initial design and implementation, but it was significantly redesigned and reimplemented after it was picked up by the wider Mozilla organisation for use in browser development. So Rust as we know it today was definitely made for browser development at Mozilla. But that means both Firefox and Servo, not just Servo.

lagniappe 3y ago

[flagged]

ramon156 3y ago
Oh no! Anyway

thrdbndndn 3y ago

Can someone elaborate the relationship between Servo and Firefox? When it firstly came I thought it's going to be the next engine used in Firefox (replacing Gecko), but it apparently was not the case. I then heard that servo would be part of Firefox, replacing certain components (layout rendering?), but this repo seems to imply that Servo is a standalone engine. Edit: found a reddit post [1], which cleared up what Firefox wanted/got from Servo project. But it's now even more confusing that what the purpose of current Servo project has. If building a full browser engine from scratch is deemed to hard even with Mozilla's financial support (according to this post), now without, it's hard to imagine anything substantive would be done with this project in future. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/yvd1f0/whats_the_status_of_servo_right_now/ https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/yvd1f0/whats_the_s...

jsheard 3y ago
My understanding is that it was going to be the new core of Firefox, until the mass Mozilla layoff of 2020 where the Servo team was completely gutted.
- tristan957 3y ago
  This is incorrect. Servo was a test bed for new architectural changes within Firefox. Some of them made their way into Firefox, like Stylo and WebRender.
  - MatthewPhillips 3y ago
    I don't think that was the plan from the start. There definitely was talk that it would eventually replace Gecko, not just be used for parts.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]

thih9 3y ago

For details on how parts of Servo were moved to FF, see Quantum: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gecko_(software)#Quantum https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gecko_(software)#Quantum > It includes numerous improvements to Gecko, largely incorporated from the experimental Servo project.

ryukoposting 3y ago

Interesting that the last git tag was pushed in 2019, and most of the Cargo.toml files show version "0.0.1."

ThisIsMyAltAcct 3y ago
As another commenter points out, Mozilla laid off almost the entire Servo team a few years ago
- speps 3y ago
  It's being picked up again though: https://www.theregister.com/2023/09/27/servo_returns/ https://www.theregister.com/2023/09/27/servo_returns/
bouncycastle 3y ago
It's a little rusty
WinstonSmith84 3y ago
don't know, there was a downtime in 2021 and 22 but since 2023, contributions look back to where it was before .. https://github.com/servo/servo/graphs/contributors https://github.com/servo/servo/graphs/contributors

computerfriend 3y ago

[flagged]

jasonjmcghee 3y ago
imo should say "install rust" as a step and show the command. We probably shouldn't condition folks to blindly paste/execute, especially shell scripts from the web- but it sure is easy
digdigdag 3y ago
You can examine the contents of the shell script yourself -- but how is this any different from running the rest of the application without examining the source? Do you just draw some arbitrary line to say, "running easily readable shell scripts is bad, but compiling and running code I have never looked at or completely understand is okay."? Really the only logical answer here is to adopt a zero trust security model and just assume every line of code is compromised. Run it in a VM, in a container, firewall it, jail it, sandbox it, etc. Otherwise you're whispering sweet nothings to yourself if you believe piping unknown scripts to shell is the most vulnerable thing you can do here.
- computerfriend 3y ago
  It's because I have an expectation that running the actual code won't change system-wide state and running the pipe-into-shell command will.

jasonjmcghee 3y ago

Always shade thrown at "in Rust" and I don't like how it's become buzz-wordy, but here it seems appropriate- not because "oh I might use this browser because it's written in rust" more like a great resource to understand how so many various features and functionality are implemented and fit together in a particular language that might be of interest. If this were written in D or Zig or something other than C++, I think that's unique and worth mentioning. What a cool project to be open source. Browsers do a lot of crazy stuff.

datenwolf 3y ago
Fun fact: Rust's development saw significant traction and support by Mozilla in the first place to be used for the development of Servo. Or in other words, the eventual development of Servo was, what motivated the development of of Rust from pet project into what it is today.
pydry 3y ago
It is a signal of quality. There are entire classes of bug which are much less likely to occur in apps written in rust. As with all signals, it is neither a guarantee nor entirely meaningless.

iso8859-1 3y ago

Previously: * Servo to Advance in 2023 (300 points), Jan 2023: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34400214 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34400214 * Servo, the parallel browser engine written in Rust (340 points), May 2023: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36092852 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36092852 * This year in Servo (265 points), Dec 2023: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38681463 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38681463 * What's the future of Servo? (578 points), Aug 2020: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24156504 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24156504 * Servo's new home (1025 points), Nov 2020: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25125325 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25125325

dabber 3y ago
See also: * What's the future of Servo? (578 points) Aug 14, 2020 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24156504 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24156504 * Servo Engine contributions this year (238 points) July 1, 2021 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27700836 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27700836 * Can Servo be a clean and modern reference platform for developers? (62 points) Aug 27, 2015 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10129518 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10129518

MightyBuzzard 3y ago

[dead]

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

mariusor 3y ago

I take umbrage with the qualificative of "An"... the title should say "THE". :)