5 ms·

Is there any chance that the lack of US regulations will, at some point, cause the general populations to flee the US rather than deal with tech companies monit

by laxd 3y ago

Is there any chance that the lack of US regulations will, at some point, cause the general populations to flee the US rather than deal with tech companies monitoring and controlling every aspect of your life?

endisneigh 3y ago
Nope.
Pungsnigel 3y ago
Nope. These type of regulations looks good, but it's not fun or easy to do business in an overly regulated marked. If this continues, the US will improving financially faster than the EU. People are not likely to move to a worse economy because they value regulations like this.
- xur17 3y ago
  > These type of regulations looks good, but it's not fun or easy to do business in an overly regulated marked. This. Each regulation by itself sounds like something reasonable / potentially good, but trying to run a business in an environment like this is excessively complicated, and ends up being only something huge businesses are willing to put up with.
- troupo 3y ago
  Ah yes, the bad-bad regulations of "do not spy on people", "don't collect and sell people's data wholesale" and "don't use undocumented blackboxes in surveillance". Won't someone think of the financial improvement!
  - blitzar 3y ago
    How are you meant to "innovate" if you can't harvest your customers data and sell it to the highest bidder?
- jorvi 3y ago
  Yup. These type of regulations looks bad, but it's not fun or easy to live in an overly deregulated market. If this continues, the US will deteriorate in happiness faster than the EU. People are not likely to move to a worse society because they value regulations like this.
fallingknife 3y ago
I'm not happy with the monitoring, but tech companies control absolutely no aspect of my life.
- tenebrisalietum 3y ago
  Monitoring is invisible control.
  - fallingknife 3y ago
    In the hands of the government, yes. But companies can only use it to try, and fail, to get me to buy stuff I don't need because they really don't have the power to do anything unpleasant to me.
    - tenebrisalietum 3y ago
      Some governments will contract with companies to obtain data, or even subpoena the data directly. There are checks and balances. Generally the system and the people behind it are trustworthy and reliabily act from principles over partisanship or economic concerns. Furthermore, we can generally trust that will always be the case; in addition to established political norms and precedents. So I agree there is nothing to worry about.
    - saintfire 3y ago
      I suppose you, just like everyone else claims, are immune to marketing? The most insidious form of control is convincing people they are forming their own opinions without any outside influence. Regardless who you are, the content you are exposed to online and by extension in-person through your peers is shaped by who exposes it in the first place. I'm speaking beyond just marketing, rather to general attitudes and knowledge.
    - smolder 3y ago
      Google, Facebook, Cloudflare, etc. can hand over all sorts of interesting data to the USG about you, assuming the NSA hasn't already taken it. And we know the FBI gets access to that, so...
theonemind 3y ago
Generally, the US seems to play a role similar for the EU that China does to the US. Regulations run a bit weaker, so companies can do nasty stuff with externalities, then the US (and the EU) can take advantage of it with the externality pushed off. Like, the EU will have generative AI...a little lagged, but regulated for the interest of people. The comparatively lawless US will get the dirty hit, and they'll get the clean version. Maybe not even from US companies. If US companies just flee the regulation, they will probably have domestic companies doing it in compliance with their regulation, and if they lag a bit in innovation, they will see what happened in the US, then implement it in a compliant manner, and that has the advantage of boosting the domestic economy instead of relying on US tech anyway. However, it doesn't seem quite that simple, because it ignores the economic advantage of more lax regulation, which doesn't run entirely disjoint from human interests, and it might account a little for the large size of the US economy. The calibration seems a bit off in the US. While a much poorer country, I like how Bhutan explicitly has a Gross National Happiness index, not just a GDP. It certainly feels like the GDP gets too much attention and the US treats economics as an end in itself, not in service to human happiness, with predictable results. (Obviously, I'm speaking in generalities. China has the 996, work 6 days a week, 9AM-9PM, which seems like a greater deprioritization of happiness for economics than the US. I mean the US would do better to keep the GDP in perspective as an element of happiness, perhaps an important one, but a subservient* one.) *corrected thanks to comment below
- mnau 3y ago
  It's 996 system, from 9AM to 9PM, 6 days a week. Not that it really matters that much, but it was found illegal Supreme People's Court in 2021.
  - theonemind 3y ago
    thanks! total brain glitch there.
- spacebanana7 3y ago
  Economic strength is mostly valuable to states because of its correspondence to geopolitical power. The happiness of citizens isn’t really that important to politics, as long as the citizenry aren’t angry at you personally.
marcinzm 3y ago
> Is there any chance that the increase in EU regulations will, at some point, cause the general populations to flee the EU rather than deal with the government monitoring and controlling every aspect of your life?
TMWNN 3y ago
>Is there any chance that the lack of US regulations will, at some point, cause the general populations to flee the US rather than deal with tech companies monitoring and controlling every aspect of your life? Wow, your witty riposte really got 'em, eh? But wouldn't >I know you are, but what am I? be shorter to type? Or, even better, >no u
rstuart4133 3y ago
> Is there any chance that the lack of US regulations will, at some point, cause the general populations to flee the US rather than deal with tech companies monitoring and controlling every aspect of your life? Speaking as an Australian who lives in a place that is often considered over regulated ... zero chance. Turns out living in a place that has laws like "thou shall not lie on the box", and "shrink wrap licences for software shall not override the law" (this is what new EU law says) is pretty nice. Hell, in Australia we have laws that say ISP's must tell you what minimum bandwidth you are paying for, and horrors, the price displayed must be the price you pay in the end. Oh, the imposition this must place be on a business ... Actually it turns out it's very little. The ISP's already knew how much bandwidth people were using because they pay for it, and as for the difficulty of displaying th price you plan on charging the customer - lets no go there. Most of the world thinks competitive markets are a good thing. The free markets the USA seems to prefer look to be a form of self flagellation to us.

by laxd 3y ago

endisneigh 3y ago

Nope.

Pungsnigel 3y ago

Nope. These type of regulations looks good, but it's not fun or easy to do business in an overly regulated marked. If this continues, the US will improving financially faster than the EU. People are not likely to move to a worse economy because they value regulations like this.

xur17 3y ago
> These type of regulations looks good, but it's not fun or easy to do business in an overly regulated marked. This. Each regulation by itself sounds like something reasonable / potentially good, but trying to run a business in an environment like this is excessively complicated, and ends up being only something huge businesses are willing to put up with.
troupo 3y ago
Ah yes, the bad-bad regulations of "do not spy on people", "don't collect and sell people's data wholesale" and "don't use undocumented blackboxes in surveillance". Won't someone think of the financial improvement!
- blitzar 3y ago
  How are you meant to "innovate" if you can't harvest your customers data and sell it to the highest bidder?
jorvi 3y ago
Yup. These type of regulations looks bad, but it's not fun or easy to live in an overly deregulated market. If this continues, the US will deteriorate in happiness faster than the EU. People are not likely to move to a worse society because they value regulations like this.

fallingknife 3y ago

I'm not happy with the monitoring, but tech companies control absolutely no aspect of my life.

tenebrisalietum 3y ago
Monitoring is invisible control.
- fallingknife 3y ago
  In the hands of the government, yes. But companies can only use it to try, and fail, to get me to buy stuff I don't need because they really don't have the power to do anything unpleasant to me.
  - tenebrisalietum 3y ago
    Some governments will contract with companies to obtain data, or even subpoena the data directly. There are checks and balances. Generally the system and the people behind it are trustworthy and reliabily act from principles over partisanship or economic concerns. Furthermore, we can generally trust that will always be the case; in addition to established political norms and precedents. So I agree there is nothing to worry about.
  - saintfire 3y ago
    I suppose you, just like everyone else claims, are immune to marketing? The most insidious form of control is convincing people they are forming their own opinions without any outside influence. Regardless who you are, the content you are exposed to online and by extension in-person through your peers is shaped by who exposes it in the first place. I'm speaking beyond just marketing, rather to general attitudes and knowledge.
  - smolder 3y ago
    Google, Facebook, Cloudflare, etc. can hand over all sorts of interesting data to the USG about you, assuming the NSA hasn't already taken it. And we know the FBI gets access to that, so...

theonemind 3y ago

Generally, the US seems to play a role similar for the EU that China does to the US. Regulations run a bit weaker, so companies can do nasty stuff with externalities, then the US (and the EU) can take advantage of it with the externality pushed off. Like, the EU will have generative AI...a little lagged, but regulated for the interest of people. The comparatively lawless US will get the dirty hit, and they'll get the clean version. Maybe not even from US companies. If US companies just flee the regulation, they will probably have domestic companies doing it in compliance with their regulation, and if they lag a bit in innovation, they will see what happened in the US, then implement it in a compliant manner, and that has the advantage of boosting the domestic economy instead of relying on US tech anyway. However, it doesn't seem quite that simple, because it ignores the economic advantage of more lax regulation, which doesn't run entirely disjoint from human interests, and it might account a little for the large size of the US economy. The calibration seems a bit off in the US. While a much poorer country, I like how Bhutan explicitly has a Gross National Happiness index, not just a GDP. It certainly feels like the GDP gets too much attention and the US treats economics as an end in itself, not in service to human happiness, with predictable results. (Obviously, I'm speaking in generalities. China has the 996, work 6 days a week, 9AM-9PM, which seems like a greater deprioritization of happiness for economics than the US. I mean the US would do better to keep the GDP in perspective as an element of happiness, perhaps an important one, but a subservient* one.) *corrected thanks to comment below

mnau 3y ago
It's 996 system, from 9AM to 9PM, 6 days a week. Not that it really matters that much, but it was found illegal Supreme People's Court in 2021.
- theonemind 3y ago
  thanks! total brain glitch there.
spacebanana7 3y ago
Economic strength is mostly valuable to states because of its correspondence to geopolitical power. The happiness of citizens isn’t really that important to politics, as long as the citizenry aren’t angry at you personally.

marcinzm 3y ago

> Is there any chance that the increase in EU regulations will, at some point, cause the general populations to flee the EU rather than deal with the government monitoring and controlling every aspect of your life?

TMWNN 3y ago

>Is there any chance that the lack of US regulations will, at some point, cause the general populations to flee the US rather than deal with tech companies monitoring and controlling every aspect of your life? Wow, your witty riposte really got 'em, eh? But wouldn't >I know you are, but what am I? be shorter to type? Or, even better, >no u

rstuart4133 3y ago

> Is there any chance that the lack of US regulations will, at some point, cause the general populations to flee the US rather than deal with tech companies monitoring and controlling every aspect of your life? Speaking as an Australian who lives in a place that is often considered over regulated ... zero chance. Turns out living in a place that has laws like "thou shall not lie on the box", and "shrink wrap licences for software shall not override the law" (this is what new EU law says) is pretty nice. Hell, in Australia we have laws that say ISP's must tell you what minimum bandwidth you are paying for, and horrors, the price displayed must be the price you pay in the end. Oh, the imposition this must place be on a business ... Actually it turns out it's very little. The ISP's already knew how much bandwidth people were using because they pay for it, and as for the difficulty of displaying th price you plan on charging the customer - lets no go there. Most of the world thinks competitive markets are a good thing. The free markets the USA seems to prefer look to be a form of self flagellation to us.