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I'm Dutch and my liberal and even anarchist background makes me angry about these trends. But this is what Dutch people want. Increased and more heavy handed P
by berkes 3y ago
I'm Dutch and my liberal and even anarchist background makes me angry about these trends.
But this is what Dutch people want. Increased and more heavy handed Police enforcement, less oversight, and broader duties is exactly what voters have voted for. Dutch elections have moved the political landscape to the far right. And in the Netherlands (and many EU countries), "far right" goes hand-in-hand with increased and heavier police presence (though often without increased funding). Edit: this has been an actual "promise" to voters by parties who were voted in place on a.o. this exact promise.
So I'm not suprised. And also think "this is exactly what we asked for".
- 127361 3y agoThe media is scaring them into accepting these measures, which is standard practice in totalitarian states, by the way. Create a climate of fear, and introduce draconian measures which the public will then accept. And that is how a democratic society slowly becomes authoritarian, it plays out very slowly over decades.
- berkes 3y agoIs it "the media" though? In the Netherlands, "the Media" and "far right" are often direct opposites, at least, that's how the far right wants it to look. Data shows that "far right" gets more media time than many other parts of the political spectrum, yet they keep saying this media "censors" them. https://scholar.google.com/citations?view_op=view_citation&hl=en&user=wSKV99EAAAAJ&citation_for_view=wSKV99EAAAAJ:u5HHmVD_uO8C https://scholar.google.com/citations?view_op=view_citation&h...
- pstuart 3y agoTruth is irrelevant to extremists.
- voakbasda 3y agoTruth is irrelevant in politics and government.
- pstuart 3y agoI'd counter that is's an uncertainty in those arenas. Politics itself in many cases has devolved into bald-faced lies (rather than muddled truths). Government often hides embarrassing truths but it doesn't mean that every utterance from office is a lie. YMMV depending on the who is doing the talking.
- ta1243 3y agoIt's not the media, it's those who complain about the "Mainstream media" not "telling the truth", and using bigtech platforms to reach people.
- Vinnl 3y agoI think the question is: is it "the far right"? The far right hasn't really been in power yet. It's the "regular" right (VVD, CDA) that have governed on a "tough on crime" platform.
- delichon 3y agoWithout the immigration controversy the right would not have gained control. With it, it's almost inevitable. This is a major political force throughout the west, driving the popularity of Trump, Brexit, Alternative for Germany, etc. It's just part of the cost of large immigrant flows and needs to be factored into those policies.
- hhh 3y agoI have been struggling to understand the immigration controversy. My understanding is a lot of the hate is related to refugees, which don't seem to be too high numbers wise?[1] 1: https://ind.nl/en/about-us/statistics-and-publications/asylum-trends https://ind.nl/en/about-us/statistics-and-publications/asylu...
- sebmellen 3y agoThere are conservatively 100x as many economic migrants as true refugees, many of whom enter through the same immigration routes and are devout Muslims who hold beliefs that are incompatible with western legal systems. In 2014 there were 13 Salafist mosques in the country which rose to 27 in 2018. The number of Salafist preachers was more than doubled in the same time span, from 50 to 110 according to the Dutch counter-terrorism authority (NCTV). In 2019, an investigation by the Nieuwsuur TV programme and the newspaper NRC, investigated fifty mosque schools, obtaining educational material from ten Quran classes given by fundamentalist organisations. The investigation showed that children were taught that infidels go to hell. Punishments against homosexuals and "enemies of God" were glorified. In an ideal Islamic state operating under sharia law, heretics would be punished by the death penalty, adulterers stoned and magicians killed by the sword. Children were warned against having social contacts with non-Muslims. [0] [0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_Netherlands https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_Netherlands
- Vinnl 3y agoAt least in the Netherlands the majority of immigrants are of Dutch and European descent, e.g. Polish, Romanian or Bulgarian seasonal workers. I am sceptical that those are devout Muslims and use the same immigration routes as e.g. Syrian refugees. More likely they just hop in the car and drive, since that's legal within the Schengen area.
- Vinnl 3y agoJust the "regular" right has also (or perhaps even more strongly) proudly cultivated a "tough on crime" image over the years. Think Fred Teeven, Ivo Opstelten.
- dist-epoch 3y agoMaybe the citizens voted like that because of things like this: > As the mayor of Amsterdam, I can see the Netherlands risks becoming a narco-state https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/05/amsterdam-netherlands-drugs-policy-trade https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/05/amster...
- the-dude 3y agoWe averaged about 1 bomb explosion a day in 2023.
- berkes 3y agoIn the netherlands?
- yourusername 3y agoYes. https://www.binnenlandsbestuur.nl/bestuur-en-organisatie/2023-explosies-een-op-vijf-gemeenten-ook-buiten-randstad https://www.binnenlandsbestuur.nl/bestuur-en-organisatie/202...
- elric 3y agoI'm assuming this is the same shit that's going on in Belgium? Where drug cartels throw grenades at the competition's houses?
- RcouF1uZ4gsC 3y agoPart of this is because the liberal parties are painting concern about crime as a “far right” concert. Well, if you are concerned about crime, and the far right is the only one really talking about it, then people are going to vote far right.
- brnt 3y agoLiterally all of these doorbell cameras are mounted illegally: the law forbids them to have public spaces visible in them, yet everybody points them horizontally towards the street. Nobody cares about that either (but me). Really, I think as soon as the street is visible, you have no good argument to stop police from getting a copy.
- jsiepkes 3y ago> the law forbids them to have public spaces visible in them The law is not that binary. The law says it's not allowed _unless_ you have a "legitimate interest". What qualifies as a "legitimate interest" is up to a judge to decide.
- brnt 3y agoIt doubt it'll ever be argued for doorbells. Security cams, that's another story. A fact is: nobody takes care of this, so I cannot feel very bad for the police asking for the data.
- jsiepkes 3y ago> It doubt it'll ever be argued for doorbells. Security cams, that's another story. Since the camera in the "doorbell" is recording continuously I highly doubt it's anything else then a (security) camera in the eyes of the law. I highly doubt a little button on it which makes it do "ding-dong" changes anything about that.
- brnt 3y agoThe point of the device is to enable the owner to see who's at the door. Any other ability (seeing far outside of the zone right at your door) seems to me to not be the purpose of the device, but a side effect that's therefore not legitimate.