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Apple Plans New Fees and Restrictions for Downloads Outside App Store

32 points by impish9208 3y ago

cranberryturkey 3y ago
PWAs need to take front and center.
- pjmlp 3y ago
  They kind of have already, the projects I work on, mobile Web does just fine for ecommerce, and forms over data kind of applications. The only native apps I install are the ones I have to due to some service, and naturally games.
- TheCoelacanth 3y ago
  Only a partial solution when Apple controls the only browser allowed. They have consistently dragged their feet on implementing any app-like features for iOS Safari.
smartbit 3y ago
https://archive.is/dCvJT https://archive.is/dCvJT
paulpan 3y ago
Totally expected turn of events. Apple isn't giving up their 30% app revenue score without a fight. This is identical to other article to charge up to 27% for non-App Store purchases: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39020365 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39020365 In a world of stagnant hardware sales, Services is the only growing category for Apple. Say goodbye to AAPL stock prices if this gets serious eroded by sideloading apps, etc.
- BizarroLand 3y ago
  I love that the phrase "Stagnant Hardware Sales" can somehow be applied to a company that in the fourth quarter of its 2023 fiscal year generated 43.81 billion U.S. dollars in revenue from the sales of iPhones alone.
  - Calvin02 3y ago
    I think the question there is how much of that is organic vs operators pushing and "subsidizing" (really interest free loans) iphone sales.
mdhb 3y ago
I understand their motivations for wanting to keep the cash cow going as long as possible but they are so openly hostile to consumer choice and developers at this point in a way that’s going to be hard to undo. The web has changed so much in the past ten years and with things like WASM and WebGPU beginning to land in browsers the list of use cases for native iOS apps is quickly disappearing. I hope the EU shuts down this malicious compliance quickly so they have to actually innovate on something other than how to best take hostages.
- pjmlp 3y ago
  First Safari has to properly support them.
  - mdhb 3y ago
    Just yesterday you were telling me in a comment that this was a selling point that they didn’t want to support these things.
    - pjmlp 3y ago
      Guess what company is pushing all the the ChromeOS features into the Web.
- paulpan 3y ago
  Netflix not supporting the Apple VR headset is a great example of the consequences of screwing over the developers. Prioritizing short term gains.
  - kkarakk 3y ago
    Apple however makes their own content w/ Apple TV so if the headset takes off Netflix will be forced to adopt whatever standard Apple is making. Let's be real - watching 2D video on a VR headset feels dumb whether you're doing it from a browser or a native app. The device supports a browser approach.
- 3y ago
fxtentacle 3y ago
It looks like Apple has full dominance over how revenue gets distributed. They can squeeze their suppliers, they can squeeze their app developers (who used to be called "partners"), and they decide on the price that end-users pay for the device. I know this is a niche read, but my understanding of "Amazon’s Antitrust Paradox" [1] by the "new" (2021) chair of the FTC would be that this is indicative of Apple being anticompetitive and, thereby, indirectly harming the consumer and market fairness. Relevant quote from that article: "the company has positioned itself at the center of Internet commerce and serves as essential infrastructure for a host of other businesses that now depend on it. This Note argues that [..] market dominance pose anticompetitive concerns that the consumer welfare framework in antitrust fails to recognize." That was written to be about Amazon, but it also fits Apple here. And, I mean, it's pretty obvious that app prices have to go up eventually if you force developers to pay extortionately large fees like 30% or 27%. [1] https://www.yalelawjournal.org/note/amazons-antitrust-paradox https://www.yalelawjournal.org/note/amazons-antitrust-parado...
mpweiher 3y ago
So they plan to technically allow "sideloading", but keep both the revenue and control the same as if there were no sideloading. So there is effectively no sideloading. Yeah, those kinds of shenanigans are not going to fly with the EU. Fines incoming. Up to 10% of global turnover.

32 points by impish9208 3y ago

cranberryturkey 3y ago

PWAs need to take front and center.

pjmlp 3y ago
They kind of have already, the projects I work on, mobile Web does just fine for ecommerce, and forms over data kind of applications. The only native apps I install are the ones I have to due to some service, and naturally games.
TheCoelacanth 3y ago
Only a partial solution when Apple controls the only browser allowed. They have consistently dragged their feet on implementing any app-like features for iOS Safari.

smartbit 3y ago

https://archive.is/dCvJT https://archive.is/dCvJT

paulpan 3y ago

Totally expected turn of events. Apple isn't giving up their 30% app revenue score without a fight. This is identical to other article to charge up to 27% for non-App Store purchases: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39020365 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39020365 In a world of stagnant hardware sales, Services is the only growing category for Apple. Say goodbye to AAPL stock prices if this gets serious eroded by sideloading apps, etc.

BizarroLand 3y ago
I love that the phrase "Stagnant Hardware Sales" can somehow be applied to a company that in the fourth quarter of its 2023 fiscal year generated 43.81 billion U.S. dollars in revenue from the sales of iPhones alone.
- Calvin02 3y ago
  I think the question there is how much of that is organic vs operators pushing and "subsidizing" (really interest free loans) iphone sales.

mdhb 3y ago

I understand their motivations for wanting to keep the cash cow going as long as possible but they are so openly hostile to consumer choice and developers at this point in a way that’s going to be hard to undo. The web has changed so much in the past ten years and with things like WASM and WebGPU beginning to land in browsers the list of use cases for native iOS apps is quickly disappearing. I hope the EU shuts down this malicious compliance quickly so they have to actually innovate on something other than how to best take hostages.

pjmlp 3y ago
First Safari has to properly support them.
- mdhb 3y ago
  Just yesterday you were telling me in a comment that this was a selling point that they didn’t want to support these things.
  - pjmlp 3y ago
    Guess what company is pushing all the the ChromeOS features into the Web.
paulpan 3y ago
Netflix not supporting the Apple VR headset is a great example of the consequences of screwing over the developers. Prioritizing short term gains.
- kkarakk 3y ago
  Apple however makes their own content w/ Apple TV so if the headset takes off Netflix will be forced to adopt whatever standard Apple is making. Let's be real - watching 2D video on a VR headset feels dumb whether you're doing it from a browser or a native app. The device supports a browser approach.
3y ago

fxtentacle 3y ago

It looks like Apple has full dominance over how revenue gets distributed. They can squeeze their suppliers, they can squeeze their app developers (who used to be called "partners"), and they decide on the price that end-users pay for the device. I know this is a niche read, but my understanding of "Amazon’s Antitrust Paradox" [1] by the "new" (2021) chair of the FTC would be that this is indicative of Apple being anticompetitive and, thereby, indirectly harming the consumer and market fairness. Relevant quote from that article: "the company has positioned itself at the center of Internet commerce and serves as essential infrastructure for a host of other businesses that now depend on it. This Note argues that [..] market dominance pose anticompetitive concerns that the consumer welfare framework in antitrust fails to recognize." That was written to be about Amazon, but it also fits Apple here. And, I mean, it's pretty obvious that app prices have to go up eventually if you force developers to pay extortionately large fees like 30% or 27%. [1] https://www.yalelawjournal.org/note/amazons-antitrust-paradox https://www.yalelawjournal.org/note/amazons-antitrust-parado...

mpweiher 3y ago

So they plan to technically allow "sideloading", but keep both the revenue and control the same as if there were no sideloading. So there is effectively no sideloading. Yeah, those kinds of shenanigans are not going to fly with the EU. Fines incoming. Up to 10% of global turnover.