4 ms·

We will obviously save ourselves from climate change, even if we met every single climate target climate change is going to happen without humans anyways. Way

We will obviously save ourselves from climate change, even if we met every single climate target climate change is going to happen without humans anyways. Way too many environment activists think that humans are the sole reason for climate change, not realizing that the climate is going to change regardless if we want it to or not, humans just speed it up. Continents move, jet streams migrate, space weather is a thing, and the sun is getting hotter as well (longer time scale obvs but you get my point). We have to deal with it, if that means putting up a huge mirror between the earth and the sun then so be it.

ThunderSizzle 3y ago
It's curious that HNers purport to be...smart, yet this comment is heavily downvoted. Climate has changed before man. Climate will continue to change. Beyond that, our understanding of our impact is nonexistent and naive. I have to laugh at the hyperfocus on CO2 as if the planet doesn't have a use for it already.
- bryanlarsen 3y ago
  Never has global climate changed this quickly, as far as we can tell. Usually changes this big take tens of thousands of years, and they're handled fine-ish. A couple of times it has happened over centuries and that resulted in mass extinction. Over decades? Unprecedented.
  - willcipriano 3y ago
    > as far as we can tell. We can't tell very far.
    - bryanlarsen 3y ago
      Uncertainty makes it even more important that we don't change the climate.
      - ThunderSizzle 3y ago
        Climate changes, and you can't change that. Whose to know if its because of you or because of nature?
        bryanlarsen 3y ago
        If the rate of change is unprecedented, one answer is highly likely.
        wolverine876 3y ago
        > Whose to know if its because of you or because of nature? There is a lot of research over decades into that very question, and it overwhelmingly points to humans as the main cause.
  - overstay8930 3y ago
    The only person literally making things up here is you > A couple of times it has happened over centuries and that resulted in mass extinction. You just said, without proof, that all (apparently 2 according to you) rapid climate changes have resulted in mass extinction events. You cannot fight for change if you look like an idiot.
    - bryanlarsen 3y ago
      Are you claiming that the Permian-Triassic and Triassic-Jurassic extinction events didn't happen, or that they weren't coincidental with rapid climate changes?
- karmakurtisaani 3y ago
  Certain portion of HNers certainly is not that smart, judging from the ever present climate change denialism.
EForEndeavour 3y ago
Way too many gun control activists think that guns are the sole reason for deaths, not realizing that people are going to die regardless if we want them to or not, guns just speed it up. The speed of change is the entire problem. And if you have information sources that support your statement that humans aren't the major driver of climate change over the past roughly 50-100 years, please share it.
- overstay8930 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - EForEndeavour 3y ago
    Sorry, I gleaned that from what you wrote: "even if we met every single climate target climate change is going to happen without humans anyways." You then pointed out that the sun is getting hotter, and qualified that with "longer time scale obvs but you get my point." Is your point that you believe human activity makes a slow and/or small enough contribution to observed changes in climate that we shouldn't bother changing anything about our behaviour ("climate change is going to happen without humans anyways")? If I misunderstand this, could you please correct my understanding? I don't understand why you brought up the sun's luminosity increase. You yourself imply that you know the rate of increase is so slow that it's completely misleading to bring up in the context of the past few decades. For example: https://environmental-geology-dev.pressbooks.tru.ca/chapter/changes-in-solar-output-and-in-the-earths-atmosphere https://environmental-geology-dev.pressbooks.tru.ca/chapter/... Your calling me unintelligent was uncalled for and I didn't appreciate it. I hope to foster kinder interactions than that in life.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

ThunderSizzle 3y ago

It's curious that HNers purport to be...smart, yet this comment is heavily downvoted. Climate has changed before man. Climate will continue to change. Beyond that, our understanding of our impact is nonexistent and naive. I have to laugh at the hyperfocus on CO2 as if the planet doesn't have a use for it already.

bryanlarsen 3y ago
Never has global climate changed this quickly, as far as we can tell. Usually changes this big take tens of thousands of years, and they're handled fine-ish. A couple of times it has happened over centuries and that resulted in mass extinction. Over decades? Unprecedented.
- willcipriano 3y ago
  > as far as we can tell. We can't tell very far.
  - bryanlarsen 3y ago
    Uncertainty makes it even more important that we don't change the climate.
    - ThunderSizzle 3y ago
      Climate changes, and you can't change that. Whose to know if its because of you or because of nature?
      - bryanlarsen 3y ago
        If the rate of change is unprecedented, one answer is highly likely.
      - wolverine876 3y ago
        > Whose to know if its because of you or because of nature? There is a lot of research over decades into that very question, and it overwhelmingly points to humans as the main cause.
- overstay8930 3y ago
  The only person literally making things up here is you > A couple of times it has happened over centuries and that resulted in mass extinction. You just said, without proof, that all (apparently 2 according to you) rapid climate changes have resulted in mass extinction events. You cannot fight for change if you look like an idiot.
  - bryanlarsen 3y ago
    Are you claiming that the Permian-Triassic and Triassic-Jurassic extinction events didn't happen, or that they weren't coincidental with rapid climate changes?
karmakurtisaani 3y ago
Certain portion of HNers certainly is not that smart, judging from the ever present climate change denialism.

EForEndeavour 3y ago

Way too many gun control activists think that guns are the sole reason for deaths, not realizing that people are going to die regardless if we want them to or not, guns just speed it up. The speed of change is the entire problem. And if you have information sources that support your statement that humans aren't the major driver of climate change over the past roughly 50-100 years, please share it.

overstay8930 3y ago
[flagged]
- EForEndeavour 3y ago
  Sorry, I gleaned that from what you wrote: "even if we met every single climate target climate change is going to happen without humans anyways." You then pointed out that the sun is getting hotter, and qualified that with "longer time scale obvs but you get my point." Is your point that you believe human activity makes a slow and/or small enough contribution to observed changes in climate that we shouldn't bother changing anything about our behaviour ("climate change is going to happen without humans anyways")? If I misunderstand this, could you please correct my understanding? I don't understand why you brought up the sun's luminosity increase. You yourself imply that you know the rate of increase is so slow that it's completely misleading to bring up in the context of the past few decades. For example: https://environmental-geology-dev.pressbooks.tru.ca/chapter/changes-in-solar-output-and-in-the-earths-atmosphere https://environmental-geology-dev.pressbooks.tru.ca/chapter/... Your calling me unintelligent was uncalled for and I didn't appreciate it. I hope to foster kinder interactions than that in life.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]