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I'm begging you, stop thinking hydrogen is viable or ever will be.

by hoseja 3y ago

ZeroGravitas 3y ago
Viable for what? Currently most fertilizer is made with hydrogen that's separated from methane and the CO2 vented. It's about 2% of global emissions. Ammonia and Methanol and other efuels for shipping and flight generally require hydrogen as a building block. The Hydrogen Ladder diagram lays out the areas where Hydrogen is necessary and where better current alternative tech exists. It gets updated every so often as tech progresses but generally shouldn't see any major changes. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/hydrogen-ladder-version-50-michael-liebreich https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/hydrogen-ladder-version-50-mi...
- hoseja 3y ago
  Long-term storage and power generation. Of course it's essential as chemical feedstock but that's a necessity, not convenience. If it were (chemically) easy to use, say, the hydrogen in water molecules you bet it'd be used instead.
  - ZeroGravitas 3y ago
    Well, long duration grid balancing gets a B on the ladder. Short duration grid balancing gets an E as renewables/batteries compete. And power generation with no storage component gets a G, the lowest score possible.
  - sofixa 3y ago
    I mean, many many many people and companies are trying to get hydrogen to work. From airplanes to cars to long term energy storage. From random startups to Airbus and Toyota going through universities. There are good reasons for that, or there wouldn't be that many reputable organisations spending that much money on trying to make it work.
    - hoseja 3y ago
      And I'm telling you they are all delusional and/or propped up by oil and gas companies.
gary_0 3y ago
I would normally agree with you out of hand, but using hydrogen for temporary grid storage isn't as obviously stupid as, say, using it to power cars. Sure, most proposed uses of hydrogen are blatant red herrings invented by the fossil fuel industry, but not all of them.

I'm begging you, stop thinking hydrogen is viable or ever will be.

by hoseja 3y ago

I'm begging you, stop thinking hydrogen is viable or ever will be.

Viable for what? Currently most fertilizer is made with hydrogen that's separated from methane and the CO2 vented. It's about 2% of global emissions. Ammonia and Methanol and other efuels for shipping and flight generally require hydrogen as a building block. The Hydrogen Ladder diagram lays out the areas where Hydrogen is necessary and where better current alternative tech exists. It gets updated every so often as tech progresses but generally shouldn't see any major changes. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/hydrogen-ladder-version-50-michael-liebreich https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/hydrogen-ladder-version-50-mi...

hoseja 3y ago
Long-term storage and power generation. Of course it's essential as chemical feedstock but that's a necessity, not convenience. If it were (chemically) easy to use, say, the hydrogen in water molecules you bet it'd be used instead.
- ZeroGravitas 3y ago
  Well, long duration grid balancing gets a B on the ladder. Short duration grid balancing gets an E as renewables/batteries compete. And power generation with no storage component gets a G, the lowest score possible.
- sofixa 3y ago
  I mean, many many many people and companies are trying to get hydrogen to work. From airplanes to cars to long term energy storage. From random startups to Airbus and Toyota going through universities. There are good reasons for that, or there wouldn't be that many reputable organisations spending that much money on trying to make it work.
  - hoseja 3y ago
    And I'm telling you they are all delusional and/or propped up by oil and gas companies.

gary_0 3y ago

I would normally agree with you out of hand, but using hydrogen for temporary grid storage isn't as obviously stupid as, say, using it to power cars. Sure, most proposed uses of hydrogen are blatant red herrings invented by the fossil fuel industry, but not all of them.