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> America is doing just fine. Compared to what? China is building thousands of kilometers of high speed rail seemingly every year. They’re expanding their powe

> America is doing just fine. Compared to what? China is building thousands of kilometers of high speed rail seemingly every year. They’re expanding their power through trade agreements rather than military force. They can manufacture whatever they want. From where I am sitting it looks like China keeps growing while the US declines. Our economy is so broken people can’t afford rent, school and medical debt are skyrocketing, our planes keep falling apart, we have the highest prison population ever, mass shootings keep happening, and more and more Americans are living in cars. I think it only looks fine to us because we’re too xenophobic to look outside our borders and see how different things could be.

threeseed 3y ago
> From where I am sitting it looks like China keeps growing while the US declines That just sounds like you're ignorant about what is happening in China. The economy is in perilous shape after they allowed a completely unregulated financial sector to finance the property sector. Now there are major contagion fears as well as what the impact to consumers will be given 70% of household wealth comes from property. Combined with a very low birth rate, rapid ageing and decreasing manufacturing competitiveness due to high costs the country is in serious trouble. Far worse than the US.
- c0nducktr 3y ago
  > The economy is in perilous shape I've heard their economy is in perilous shape for years now. The people speaking of the 'coming collapse of china's economy' seem just like perma-bears here. These assumptions have shown to be wrong, time and time again, but surely the collapse is coming right, if we believe hard enough?
  - TaylorAlexander 3y ago
    Agreed. I think there’s a lot of people in the US that want to hear stories of China's failure, so the stories are written. Even if they do have a recession, that’s not the end of the world for any other major power it won’t be for China either.
- TaylorAlexander 3y ago
  And how many times has the US economy faltered? Most recently 2000, 2008, 2020. And yet we’re “doing fine” but when China’s economy has trouble it’s somehow a sign of China’s failure. I think western reports of China’s failure sell newspapers, but China’s done pretty well for itself the last 20 years. I suspect they will navigate through this recession no worse than western powers have time and time again. According to Wikipedia the US has had as many as 48 recessions. That’s not what led to our present stagnation.
- matheusmoreira 3y ago
  Irresponsible financial sector constantly crashing the economy with their unbacked loans? Insufficient birth rates causing devastating demographical changes in nations, from young economically active workers into retired geriatric population which demands extremely costly healthcare and welfare? The inevitable mass immigration that supposedly solves the demographic problem but ends up creating numerous new ones? Am I reading this right? By that logic the entire western developed world has been dead and buried for a long time now.
echelon 3y ago
> China is building thousands of kilometers of high speed rail seemingly every year. Many analysts state this has been overbuilt to the point of being gross malinvestment [1-6, etc]. All of those miles require tremendous and costly annual upkeep, and the ridership numbers won't adequately subsidize these costs. > They’re expanding their power through trade agreements rather than military force. They can manufacture whatever they want. The results of this remain to be seen. eg. they're dumping cheap EVs on Europe because their domestic market is saturated for Chinese products; meanwhile, the West is pulling back from trade. > From where I am sitting it looks like China keeps growing while the US declines. The US is hardly declining. US GDP growth is an astounding 6%, which is almost unprecedented for a developed economy. The rest of your assessment feels like progressive political talking points. Moderates and conservatives would feel very differently. > we’re too xenophobic It's xenophobic to have an ill outlook on the Chinese economy? What if one maintains a positive outlook on the Indian, Vietnamese, and Mexican economies? Or Taiwanese? Is that xenophobic? [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/are-chinas-high-speed-trains-heading-off-the-rails/2011/04/22/AFHzaNWE_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/are-chinas-high-speed-t... [2] https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Caixin/China-s-railway-investment-falls-for-a-third-straight-year https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Caixin/China-s-railway-inv... [3] https://www.ft.com/content/a9337b06-fe20-11e0-a1eb-00144feabdc0 https://www.ft.com/content/a9337b06-fe20-11e0-a1eb-00144feab... [4] https://www.orfonline.org/expert-speak/chinas-high-speed-railways-plunge-from-high-profits-into-a-debt-trap https://www.orfonline.org/expert-speak/chinas-high-speed-rai... [5] https://www.eurasiantimes.com/a-whopping-900b-debt-chinas-once-profitable-high-speed-railways/ https://www.eurasiantimes.com/a-whopping-900b-debt-chinas-on... [6] https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Transportation/China-Railway-expands-high-speed-network-as-profits-take-back-seat https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Transportation/China-Railwa...

threeseed 3y ago

> From where I am sitting it looks like China keeps growing while the US declines That just sounds like you're ignorant about what is happening in China. The economy is in perilous shape after they allowed a completely unregulated financial sector to finance the property sector. Now there are major contagion fears as well as what the impact to consumers will be given 70% of household wealth comes from property. Combined with a very low birth rate, rapid ageing and decreasing manufacturing competitiveness due to high costs the country is in serious trouble. Far worse than the US.

c0nducktr 3y ago
> The economy is in perilous shape I've heard their economy is in perilous shape for years now. The people speaking of the 'coming collapse of china's economy' seem just like perma-bears here. These assumptions have shown to be wrong, time and time again, but surely the collapse is coming right, if we believe hard enough?
- TaylorAlexander 3y ago
  Agreed. I think there’s a lot of people in the US that want to hear stories of China's failure, so the stories are written. Even if they do have a recession, that’s not the end of the world for any other major power it won’t be for China either.
TaylorAlexander 3y ago
And how many times has the US economy faltered? Most recently 2000, 2008, 2020. And yet we’re “doing fine” but when China’s economy has trouble it’s somehow a sign of China’s failure. I think western reports of China’s failure sell newspapers, but China’s done pretty well for itself the last 20 years. I suspect they will navigate through this recession no worse than western powers have time and time again. According to Wikipedia the US has had as many as 48 recessions. That’s not what led to our present stagnation.
matheusmoreira 3y ago
Irresponsible financial sector constantly crashing the economy with their unbacked loans? Insufficient birth rates causing devastating demographical changes in nations, from young economically active workers into retired geriatric population which demands extremely costly healthcare and welfare? The inevitable mass immigration that supposedly solves the demographic problem but ends up creating numerous new ones? Am I reading this right? By that logic the entire western developed world has been dead and buried for a long time now.

echelon 3y ago

> China is building thousands of kilometers of high speed rail seemingly every year. Many analysts state this has been overbuilt to the point of being gross malinvestment [1-6, etc]. All of those miles require tremendous and costly annual upkeep, and the ridership numbers won't adequately subsidize these costs. > They’re expanding their power through trade agreements rather than military force. They can manufacture whatever they want. The results of this remain to be seen. eg. they're dumping cheap EVs on Europe because their domestic market is saturated for Chinese products; meanwhile, the West is pulling back from trade. > From where I am sitting it looks like China keeps growing while the US declines. The US is hardly declining. US GDP growth is an astounding 6%, which is almost unprecedented for a developed economy. The rest of your assessment feels like progressive political talking points. Moderates and conservatives would feel very differently. > we’re too xenophobic It's xenophobic to have an ill outlook on the Chinese economy? What if one maintains a positive outlook on the Indian, Vietnamese, and Mexican economies? Or Taiwanese? Is that xenophobic? [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/are-chinas-high-speed-trains-heading-off-the-rails/2011/04/22/AFHzaNWE_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/are-chinas-high-speed-t... [2] https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Caixin/China-s-railway-investment-falls-for-a-third-straight-year https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Caixin/China-s-railway-inv... [3] https://www.ft.com/content/a9337b06-fe20-11e0-a1eb-00144feabdc0 https://www.ft.com/content/a9337b06-fe20-11e0-a1eb-00144feab... [4] https://www.orfonline.org/expert-speak/chinas-high-speed-railways-plunge-from-high-profits-into-a-debt-trap https://www.orfonline.org/expert-speak/chinas-high-speed-rai... [5] https://www.eurasiantimes.com/a-whopping-900b-debt-chinas-once-profitable-high-speed-railways/ https://www.eurasiantimes.com/a-whopping-900b-debt-chinas-on... [6] https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Transportation/China-Railway-expands-high-speed-network-as-profits-take-back-seat https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Transportation/China-Railwa...