4 ms·

(2021) - this is part of a broader attempt at arbitrage in horse racing by front-running broadcast delays to give an edge on "in-play" (real time) betting. Dron

by bri3d 3y ago

(2021) - this is part of a broader attempt at arbitrage in horse racing by front-running broadcast delays to give an edge on "in-play" (real time) betting. Drones are cheaper and more efficient than sending staff to sit trackside at every event ("court siding") and don't come with as much risk of getting banned from the event.

PaulHoule 3y ago
Can they really stop you from sitting trackside and phoning in results on your cell?
- joosters 3y ago
  They can't stop you doing that, and I've been to races years ago where people were on their mobile bellowing out a horse number to their mate on the other end, who is sitting ready to place a bet on the supposed winner. But that's not a very fine-grained way to bet, it relies on the person on the track getting things exactly right and having the correct viewing position at the critical moment. However, people courtsiding in tennis matches have been kicked out - and in some places, they've tried arresting them: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-32402945 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-32402945
- bri3d 3y ago
  Can they stop you? No. If they catch you (usually doing something more large-scale and real time, like having a camera pointed at the track), can they ban you? Yes, they can certainly try. It's sort of a cat-and-mouse game. I think this is the fun of in-play betting for some people. At the individual level, you organize your friends with a cell or have the guy who knows the guy at the race and it makes you and feel like you have an edge against the other bettors and the house odds. Of course you don't, really, just like most gambling. At the larger scale it's old school time arbitrage, HFT style stuff. At that point it's about trying to have the best strategy and shave time off of whatever your opponents are doing.
  - justin66 3y ago
    Honest question from someone who's less familiar: why would the track even care? Rather than surveilling the track for violators, can't they stop taking bets prior to the start of the race? And having done that, why would they care what happens off track, to someone else's betting operation?
    - reidjs 3y ago
      Either security theatre, it makes the naive gambler think they have an edge so they bet more, or they have vested interest/stake in offsite betting platforms
    - dfxm12 3y ago
      why would the track even care? ... why would they care what happens off track, to someone else's betting operation? The track exists, more or less, because of betting, and not just at the track. At least someone sees it as a threat to betting: "[Barry Orr, Betfair’s head of racing PR] worries that the imbalance in information across different bettors could lead to the demise of gambling on horse racing." If this is a legitimate concern, then it is in the track's best interest to make people think everyone has equal info, or else people will stop betting: "Martin Hughes, a longtime gambler based in the northeast of England who is a member of the Horseracing Bettors’ Forum, a voluntary body of gamblers, “I more or less stopped betting, because I'm so far behind it is pointless, really.”" Rather than surveilling the track for violators, can't they stop taking bets prior to the start of the race? Well, that would make them less money.
      - justin66 3y ago
        This is interesting. More questions. (from someone who obviously doesn't know about this stuff) > The track exists, more or less, because of betting, and not just at the track. Does the track hosting the race get a cut of OTB operations or sell bookies who are working remotely a data feed? So what we're really talking about is the track's CCTV having to compete with some random person's cell phone video or drone video, all of which might be streaming to a casino in Vegas or something? It seems like that Vegas casino which is hosting gamblers and taking bets also has an incentive to kick somebody out if they see that they're looking at a remote data stream and placing bets, rather than looking at the casino's televisions or whatever. Does that happen? >> Rather than surveilling the track for violators, can't they stop taking bets prior to the start of the race? > Well, that would make them less money. This is the part I don't get. If people are betting in real time during the race, isn't the human bookie a terrible bottleneck in the observe race/adjust odds/take new bets loop the bookie is engaged in? (even if he's just pushing a few buttons on a computer as quickly as possible) I can see how people would want to game this system.

by bri3d 3y ago

PaulHoule 3y ago

Can they really stop you from sitting trackside and phoning in results on your cell?

joosters 3y ago
They can't stop you doing that, and I've been to races years ago where people were on their mobile bellowing out a horse number to their mate on the other end, who is sitting ready to place a bet on the supposed winner. But that's not a very fine-grained way to bet, it relies on the person on the track getting things exactly right and having the correct viewing position at the critical moment. However, people courtsiding in tennis matches have been kicked out - and in some places, they've tried arresting them: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-32402945 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-32402945
bri3d 3y ago
Can they stop you? No. If they catch you (usually doing something more large-scale and real time, like having a camera pointed at the track), can they ban you? Yes, they can certainly try. It's sort of a cat-and-mouse game. I think this is the fun of in-play betting for some people. At the individual level, you organize your friends with a cell or have the guy who knows the guy at the race and it makes you and feel like you have an edge against the other bettors and the house odds. Of course you don't, really, just like most gambling. At the larger scale it's old school time arbitrage, HFT style stuff. At that point it's about trying to have the best strategy and shave time off of whatever your opponents are doing.
- justin66 3y ago
  Honest question from someone who's less familiar: why would the track even care? Rather than surveilling the track for violators, can't they stop taking bets prior to the start of the race? And having done that, why would they care what happens off track, to someone else's betting operation?
  - reidjs 3y ago
    Either security theatre, it makes the naive gambler think they have an edge so they bet more, or they have vested interest/stake in offsite betting platforms
  - dfxm12 3y ago
    why would the track even care? ... why would they care what happens off track, to someone else's betting operation? The track exists, more or less, because of betting, and not just at the track. At least someone sees it as a threat to betting: "[Barry Orr, Betfair’s head of racing PR] worries that the imbalance in information across different bettors could lead to the demise of gambling on horse racing." If this is a legitimate concern, then it is in the track's best interest to make people think everyone has equal info, or else people will stop betting: "Martin Hughes, a longtime gambler based in the northeast of England who is a member of the Horseracing Bettors’ Forum, a voluntary body of gamblers, “I more or less stopped betting, because I'm so far behind it is pointless, really.”" Rather than surveilling the track for violators, can't they stop taking bets prior to the start of the race? Well, that would make them less money.
    - justin66 3y ago
      This is interesting. More questions. (from someone who obviously doesn't know about this stuff) > The track exists, more or less, because of betting, and not just at the track. Does the track hosting the race get a cut of OTB operations or sell bookies who are working remotely a data feed? So what we're really talking about is the track's CCTV having to compete with some random person's cell phone video or drone video, all of which might be streaming to a casino in Vegas or something? It seems like that Vegas casino which is hosting gamblers and taking bets also has an incentive to kick somebody out if they see that they're looking at a remote data stream and placing bets, rather than looking at the casino's televisions or whatever. Does that happen? >> Rather than surveilling the track for violators, can't they stop taking bets prior to the start of the race? > Well, that would make them less money. This is the part I don't get. If people are betting in real time during the race, isn't the human bookie a terrible bottleneck in the observe race/adjust odds/take new bets loop the bookie is engaged in? (even if he's just pushing a few buttons on a computer as quickly as possible) I can see how people would want to game this system.