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> We don't know how consciousness comes into being Consciousness and life are completely different things. The article doesn't even mention consciousness. > T

by bsza 3y ago

> We don't know how consciousness comes into being Consciousness and life are completely different things. The article doesn't even mention consciousness. > Therefore it follows that ... wait for it ... life is not a special state of matter or energy It is special in the sense that it's remarkably complex e.g. compared to a mineral. It is not special in the sense that it obeys the same laws as a mineral. > Therefore the emergence of life doesn't represent a phase transition that confronts physical laws or requires an explanation No one claims it confronts physical laws. In my understanding, the article states: life may emerge naturally as molecules bump into each other, combine and eventually become complex enough that self-sustaining/self-replicating systems can come into being by chance. This process might be deterministic enough that it happens everywhere roughly at the same time (on a cosmological time scale).

lutusp 3y ago
>> We don't know how consciousness comes into being > Consciousness and life are completely different things. Yes, but they have a dependent relationship. We argue that life doesn't require consciousness, but we also argue that consciousness requires life. IMHO both arguments have issues. > The article doesn't even mention consciousness. Yes, that's true, but it's an identifier of life -- that and the ability to reproduce. If the wind waves a flag, we don't attribute life to the wind. If a person waves a flag, we do. If a robot waves a flag, well, that's an open question at the moment. > ... This process might be deterministic enough that it happens everywhere roughly at the same time (on a cosmological time scale). Ah, I see an issue with that. We now know there are galaxies much older than ours (and younger), and if life is a common property of matter (still not determined) and if it relies on a certain set of preconditions, that would mean life would appear at widely different times, depending on location.

by bsza 3y ago

lutusp 3y ago

>> We don't know how consciousness comes into being > Consciousness and life are completely different things. Yes, but they have a dependent relationship. We argue that life doesn't require consciousness, but we also argue that consciousness requires life. IMHO both arguments have issues. > The article doesn't even mention consciousness. Yes, that's true, but it's an identifier of life -- that and the ability to reproduce. If the wind waves a flag, we don't attribute life to the wind. If a person waves a flag, we do. If a robot waves a flag, well, that's an open question at the moment. > ... This process might be deterministic enough that it happens everywhere roughly at the same time (on a cosmological time scale). Ah, I see an issue with that. We now know there are galaxies much older than ours (and younger), and if life is a common property of matter (still not determined) and if it relies on a certain set of preconditions, that would mean life would appear at widely different times, depending on location.