4 ms·

Interestingly, agricultural tractors have evolved to have better sightlines. Could that be because for these machines, the pedestrian deaths are usually members

Interestingly, agricultural tractors have evolved to have better sightlines. Could that be because for these machines, the pedestrian deaths are usually members of the tractor drivers' family? https://www.profi.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/8/2020/06/25._john_deere_7r_350_dsc0355_tech.jpg?w=900 https://www.profi.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/8/2020/06/2... vs https://bigiron.blob.core.windows.net/public/items/72b53c753cc94c36a0d3a178ee255bd8/johndeere7200tractor_881324e1fbd9457394a9c36e73aabffc.jpg https://bigiron.blob.core.windows.net/public/items/72b53c753...

porphyra 3y ago
Children keep getting killed by their own parents' SUVs though...
- mtoner23 3y ago
  Some SUVs even have front cameras now to help see children
  - kayodelycaon 3y ago
    Mine also has cameras and radars on the sides. Makes parking easier and backing out safer. The radars can see speeding cars in the parking lot before I can. :)
Swizec 3y ago
> Could that be because for these machines, the pedestrian deaths are usually members of the tractor drivers' family I have a different guess after seeing tractors in use as a kid: Driving tractors is a high precision affair. You're moving around expensive equipment that you don't want to bump. You're plowing next to all sorts of hazards you don't want to fall into. You have to park within an inch of attachments before hooking them on. Good sight lines help with all this.
- riversflow 3y ago
  Also, tractors are built to do work, not keep their occupants safe in a crash.
  - trgn 3y ago
    > not keep their occupants safe in a crash. perfect expression of the tragedy of the commons. Until there's top down government intervention, people choose to be either part of the problem or part of the solution.
  - NikkiA 3y ago
    Not totally true, tractors gained roll bars and roll cages 40 or so years ago for a reason, and it was safety.
- alan-hn 3y ago
  One could say that navigating a large vehicle through streets populated by humans should be considered a high precision affair, or is the difference expensive equipment vs human lives?
  - Swizec 3y ago
    > is the difference expensive equipment vs human lives? The difference is in safety margins. You really shouldn't drive a vehicle to within 2cm of any object on public streets. Not even while parking. 0.5m (2ft) is about the closest you should ever drive your car to anything really. Whereas for a tractor getting within 2cm is normal operating procedure. You won't be able to grab a 500kg (1100lb) attachment and drag it over to your tractor because you stopped too far away.
    - u32480932048 3y ago
      > Not even while parking. 0.5m (2ft) is about the closest you should ever drive your car to anything really. I've lived in several US states and the law has always been to park less than a foot from the curb.
trgn 3y ago
One of the reason I'm holding on to an old car, apart from out of spite, is the big windows and fantastic visibility. It's like stepping into a sunroom compared to new cars.
kube-system 3y ago
Agricultural tractors aren't made with any consideration for pedestrian safety. The reason they have good visibility is because that makes them easier to use, and there is no other competing reason not to surround the driver with a lot of glass. Passenger vehicles have other requirements that complicate this: 1. They must be attractive enough to sell in volume to the end buyer 2. They require large A-pillars to absorb crash impacts You could make an SUV that looks big fish bowl, but it would be difficult to simultaneously achieve safety targets and be a commercial success.
- alan-hn 3y ago
  I'm sure you could achieve safety targets with a vehicle that was safe for those outside of it as well, perhaps safety for your children crossing the road should be attractive to consumers?
  - kube-system 3y ago
    Sedans, hatchbacks, and wagons are those vehicles. They are slipping in sales compared to SUVs despite having better pedestrian safety. People have many priorities when buying a vehicle, and most people simply don't think they're at risk of running over their own kid, until they do.
    - alan-hn 3y ago
      People are really good at being wrong about things, especially as evidenced by how many people do run over theirs and other peoples kids
matsemann 3y ago
London has enforced a Direct Vision Standard [1 example image] for big vehicles. I hope my city will soon as well. Having large trucks, trailers etc. in the city with no visibility to pedestrians is a death trap. My city's new trash truck [2]. Instead of the standard "high" trailer seating above the engine, it's now down on a pedestrian level and can see clearly in what's normally a "blind spot" when turning right. [1]: https://fncdn.blob.core.windows.net/web-clean/1/root/direct-vision-standard.jpg https://fncdn.blob.core.windows.net/web-clean/1/root/direct-... [2]: https://storage.googleapis.com/smallstep/sites/33/2022/02/Renovasjonsbil-som-star-parkert-pa-VF47_Mars_2020-9-of-7.jpg https://storage.googleapis.com/smallstep/sites/33/2022/02/Re...

porphyra 3y ago

Children keep getting killed by their own parents' SUVs though...

mtoner23 3y ago
Some SUVs even have front cameras now to help see children
- kayodelycaon 3y ago
  Mine also has cameras and radars on the sides. Makes parking easier and backing out safer. The radars can see speeding cars in the parking lot before I can. :)

Swizec 3y ago

> Could that be because for these machines, the pedestrian deaths are usually members of the tractor drivers' family I have a different guess after seeing tractors in use as a kid: Driving tractors is a high precision affair. You're moving around expensive equipment that you don't want to bump. You're plowing next to all sorts of hazards you don't want to fall into. You have to park within an inch of attachments before hooking them on. Good sight lines help with all this.

riversflow 3y ago
Also, tractors are built to do work, not keep their occupants safe in a crash.
- trgn 3y ago
  > not keep their occupants safe in a crash. perfect expression of the tragedy of the commons. Until there's top down government intervention, people choose to be either part of the problem or part of the solution.
- NikkiA 3y ago
  Not totally true, tractors gained roll bars and roll cages 40 or so years ago for a reason, and it was safety.
alan-hn 3y ago
One could say that navigating a large vehicle through streets populated by humans should be considered a high precision affair, or is the difference expensive equipment vs human lives?
- Swizec 3y ago
  > is the difference expensive equipment vs human lives? The difference is in safety margins. You really shouldn't drive a vehicle to within 2cm of any object on public streets. Not even while parking. 0.5m (2ft) is about the closest you should ever drive your car to anything really. Whereas for a tractor getting within 2cm is normal operating procedure. You won't be able to grab a 500kg (1100lb) attachment and drag it over to your tractor because you stopped too far away.
  - u32480932048 3y ago
    > Not even while parking. 0.5m (2ft) is about the closest you should ever drive your car to anything really. I've lived in several US states and the law has always been to park less than a foot from the curb.

trgn 3y ago

One of the reason I'm holding on to an old car, apart from out of spite, is the big windows and fantastic visibility. It's like stepping into a sunroom compared to new cars.

kube-system 3y ago

Agricultural tractors aren't made with any consideration for pedestrian safety. The reason they have good visibility is because that makes them easier to use, and there is no other competing reason not to surround the driver with a lot of glass. Passenger vehicles have other requirements that complicate this: 1. They must be attractive enough to sell in volume to the end buyer 2. They require large A-pillars to absorb crash impacts You could make an SUV that looks big fish bowl, but it would be difficult to simultaneously achieve safety targets and be a commercial success.

alan-hn 3y ago
I'm sure you could achieve safety targets with a vehicle that was safe for those outside of it as well, perhaps safety for your children crossing the road should be attractive to consumers?
- kube-system 3y ago
  Sedans, hatchbacks, and wagons are those vehicles. They are slipping in sales compared to SUVs despite having better pedestrian safety. People have many priorities when buying a vehicle, and most people simply don't think they're at risk of running over their own kid, until they do.
  - alan-hn 3y ago
    People are really good at being wrong about things, especially as evidenced by how many people do run over theirs and other peoples kids

matsemann 3y ago

London has enforced a Direct Vision Standard [1 example image] for big vehicles. I hope my city will soon as well. Having large trucks, trailers etc. in the city with no visibility to pedestrians is a death trap. My city's new trash truck [2]. Instead of the standard "high" trailer seating above the engine, it's now down on a pedestrian level and can see clearly in what's normally a "blind spot" when turning right. [1]: https://fncdn.blob.core.windows.net/web-clean/1/root/direct-vision-standard.jpg https://fncdn.blob.core.windows.net/web-clean/1/root/direct-... [2]: https://storage.googleapis.com/smallstep/sites/33/2022/02/Renovasjonsbil-som-star-parkert-pa-VF47_Mars_2020-9-of-7.jpg https://storage.googleapis.com/smallstep/sites/33/2022/02/Re...