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Yeah, I'm very sad that helm won. We do OSS k8s stuff at work, and 100% of users have asked for us to make a helm chart. So we had to. It is miserable to wor

Yeah, I'm very sad that helm won. We do OSS k8s stuff at work, and 100% of users have asked for us to make a helm chart. So we had to. It is miserable to work on; your editor can't help you because the files are named like "foo.yaml" but they aren't YAML. You have to make sure you pipe all your data through "indent 4" so that things are lined up correctly in the YAML. What depresses me the most is that you have to re-expose every Kubernetes feature in your own way. Someone wants to add deployment.spec.template.spec.fooBars? Now you have to add deploymentFooBars to your values.yaml file and plumb it in. For every. single. feature. It's truly "worse is better" gone wrong. I have definitely done some terrible things like "sed -e s/$FOO/foo/g" to implement templating... and that's probably how Helm started. The result is a mess. I personally grew up on Kustomize before it was in kubectl, and was always exceedingly happy with it. (OK, it has a lot of quirks. But at least it saves you time because it actually understands the semantics of the objects you are creating.) I like Jsonnet a lot better. As part of our k8s app, we ship an Envoy deployment to do all of our crazy traffic routing (basically... maintaining backwards compatibility with old releases). Envoy configs are... verbose..., but Jsonnet makes it really easy to work on. (The code in question: https://github.com/pachyderm/pachyderm/blob/master/etc/generate-envoy-config/envoy.jsonnet https://github.com/pachyderm/pachyderm/blob/master/etc/gener...) I'm seriously considering transpiling jsonnet to the Go template language and just implementing everything with Jsonnet. At least that is slightly maintainable, and nobody will ever know because "helm install" will Just Work ;) But yeah, I think Helm will be the death of Kubernetes. Some competing computer allocator container runner thingie will have some decent language for configuration, and it will just take over overnight. Mark my words!

thinkmassive 3y ago
> I have definitely done some terrible things like "sed -e s/$FOO/foo/g" to implement templating Next time you reach for this, check out envsubst for a slightly improved solution that’s somewhat standard (at least common). On the topic of templating or modifying helm charts using jsonnet, you might find Tanka helpful: https://tanka.dev/helm https://tanka.dev/helm
dewbrite 3y ago
> But yeah, I think Helm will be the death of Kubernetes. Some competing computer allocator container runner thingie will have some decent language for configuration, and it will just take over overnight. Mark my words! I want to believe this. Everywhere I've worked we're still rawdogging tf/hcl and helm though, because change is scary. At least I get some relief in my personal projects. :')

thinkmassive 3y ago

> I have definitely done some terrible things like "sed -e s/$FOO/foo/g" to implement templating Next time you reach for this, check out envsubst for a slightly improved solution that’s somewhat standard (at least common). On the topic of templating or modifying helm charts using jsonnet, you might find Tanka helpful: https://tanka.dev/helm https://tanka.dev/helm

dewbrite 3y ago

> But yeah, I think Helm will be the death of Kubernetes. Some competing computer allocator container runner thingie will have some decent language for configuration, and it will just take over overnight. Mark my words! I want to believe this. Everywhere I've worked we're still rawdogging tf/hcl and helm though, because change is scary. At least I get some relief in my personal projects. :')