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At this point, it’s quite pertinent how many corners Boeing has cut over and over again—the company’s culture and management is obviously poisonous. I’m probab

At this point, it’s quite pertinent how many corners Boeing has cut over and over again—the company’s culture and management is obviously poisonous. I’m probably a minority of folks, but at this point I’m flying on airlines with the fewest Boeing Max generation planes in their fleet. I also don’t really trust the FAA to properly regulate Boeing after years of a close relationship—the recent groundings are the bare minimum.

rehitman 3y ago
I haven't tried to avoid MAX, but I have two friends who tried very hard to change flights or only get flights that are not MAX. So you are not alone. You just need to spend more money and time
- HappySweeney 3y ago
  I tried this, but they just switched planes on me last minute.
rightbyte 3y ago
It is somewhat sad to see. Like, I don't see how modern manager culture of punishing loyalty, high worker attrition, short term profits, etc, can turn Boeing around. Once the elite got rotten they need to be ousted, and the workers don't care (why would they?) and most shareholders have a voters' dilemma of caring at all due to too low stakes. The only ones that care and can do something is the government, congress etc. Boeing need to be split up and sold off, and the management fired. But I don't see that happening anytime soon.
kilroy123 3y ago
I fly a lot, way more than the average person. I try to avoid the 737-Max, but I'm rather picky about which aircraft I want to fly on.
- anderber 3y ago
  What airplanes do you like flying on? Just out of curiosity.
  - kilroy123 3y ago
    I prefer the A320neo to any 737. The Boeing 787-800 and 777-300s. The A330 is fine as well. It's been a long time but it's a joy to fly on a 747. My dream is to fly on an A380 one day.
    - arwhatever 3y ago
      My experiences on the A380 have been particularly quiet and (in the configurations I’ve flown, if there are multiple) comfortable and spacious as well. In fact it might the only aircraft model that my wife knows by its designation, due to how good her experiences on it have been.
    - anderber 3y ago
      Same here, I'd love to fly on an A380. I've flow plenty 747s as a kid, and I have great memories of them. The last one I flew was an A330-neo that I thought was really nice as well. Looking forward to fly the new Embraer E190 at some point.
      - SauciestGNU 3y ago
        Last time I was on an Embraer, the emergency exit door alarm was buzzing until the plane left the ground and the fuselage flexed enough to get a seal. The fight itself was fine but that left a questionable impression.
        rootusrootus 3y ago
        My last flight on an Embraer was in turbulent weather and at one point the plane dropped a good bit in a downdraft and when the wings caught us there was a tremendous bang that went through the entire plane. Suddenly I wanted to be on the ground in the worst way, it wasn't a sound I like to hear an airplane make when I'm riding in it...
monkeynotes 3y ago
Is there a reason to isolate this QA culture to just the Max production line? I'm concerned about anything they have produced recently.
- psunavy03 3y ago
  No, they also got in hot water with the Air Force after the Air Force found tools in a KC-46 fuel tank . . .
drstewart 3y ago
So what are your thoughts on people who won't take the vaccine because they don't trust pharma companies and the FDA? Also, what are your thoughts on the EASA and why they haven't banned the Max? I find it hilarious how many people who mock people who "don't trust the experts" and "do their own research" suddenly engage in the same thing when it comes to other domains. Make no mistake: anti-Maxxers are kinfolk to anti-vaxxers, even if you don't want to admit it.
- zaptheimpaler 3y ago
  Yes these are clearly identical situations with no difference at all! /s
  - drstewart 3y ago
    You're right, in one situation you have people rejecting a product with years of research vetted by regulators around the world because they don't like the business practices and politics of the organizations behind it. On the other, you have... the same exact thing. Whoops. They are the same.
    - inferiorhuman 3y ago
      Assuming you're not being intentionally obtuse: the FDA makes some decisions purely out of politics (e.g. many schedule 1 drugs) and they make other decisions based on higher tolerance of risk in certain situations. Perhaps the FAA should slap a black box warning on the 737 to regain credibility.
      - drstewart 3y ago
        You're arguing my point. Both anti-vaxxers and anti-Maxers believe the regulatory agencies are corrupt and politicking, therefore they substitute their own scientific opinions where they feel like it.
        inferiorhuman 3y ago
drak0n1c 3y ago
In contrast, the relatively recent Boeing 787 has an impeccable track record and has become the most comfortable long distance aircraft. Is it a matter of separate teams, managerial era, or something else? The models with issues appear to be the older ones with retrofits. Perhaps there are failure vulnerabilities when mixing today's computer-reliant design into past institutional-knowledge-reliant human design.
- cschmatzler 3y ago
  The 787 is absolutely plagued with quality control issues. In particular, deliveries were stopped for almost two full years from September 2020 to August 2022, with more issues found recently. The Charleston plant is considered the worse one compared to Everett. https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boeing-discovers-another-quality-flaw-on-787-delaying-deliveries-again/ https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boein...
  - buildsjets 3y ago
    Production of the 787 was consolidated in South Carolina in 2021. https://www.heraldnet.com/business/last-everett-built-boeing-787-rolls-off-the-assembly-line/ https://www.heraldnet.com/business/last-everett-built-boeing...
- cibyr 3y ago
  The 787's record is somewhat less than impeccable if you consider the multiple lithium-ion battery fires: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Boeing_787_Dreamliner_grounding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Boeing_787_Dreamliner_gro...
- MattGaiser 3y ago
  > the relatively recent Boeing 787 has an impeccable track record It was also grounded for a period.
- darrenf 3y ago
  “Impeccable” is doing a lot of work there! The maiden flight was 2 years late, a series of failures caused the first delivery to take another 2 years, fractures were found in wings… I could go on, this article has a timeline of just the things which went wrong up to 2014: https://www.ibtimes.com/boeing-787-complete-timeline-dreamliners-legacy-failure-after-cracks-discovered-wings-1560491 https://www.ibtimes.com/boeing-787-complete-timeline-dreamli...

rehitman 3y ago

I haven't tried to avoid MAX, but I have two friends who tried very hard to change flights or only get flights that are not MAX. So you are not alone. You just need to spend more money and time

HappySweeney 3y ago
I tried this, but they just switched planes on me last minute.

rightbyte 3y ago

It is somewhat sad to see. Like, I don't see how modern manager culture of punishing loyalty, high worker attrition, short term profits, etc, can turn Boeing around. Once the elite got rotten they need to be ousted, and the workers don't care (why would they?) and most shareholders have a voters' dilemma of caring at all due to too low stakes. The only ones that care and can do something is the government, congress etc. Boeing need to be split up and sold off, and the management fired. But I don't see that happening anytime soon.

kilroy123 3y ago

I fly a lot, way more than the average person. I try to avoid the 737-Max, but I'm rather picky about which aircraft I want to fly on.

anderber 3y ago
What airplanes do you like flying on? Just out of curiosity.
- kilroy123 3y ago
  I prefer the A320neo to any 737. The Boeing 787-800 and 777-300s. The A330 is fine as well. It's been a long time but it's a joy to fly on a 747. My dream is to fly on an A380 one day.
  - arwhatever 3y ago
    My experiences on the A380 have been particularly quiet and (in the configurations I’ve flown, if there are multiple) comfortable and spacious as well. In fact it might the only aircraft model that my wife knows by its designation, due to how good her experiences on it have been.
  - anderber 3y ago
    Same here, I'd love to fly on an A380. I've flow plenty 747s as a kid, and I have great memories of them. The last one I flew was an A330-neo that I thought was really nice as well. Looking forward to fly the new Embraer E190 at some point.
    - SauciestGNU 3y ago
      Last time I was on an Embraer, the emergency exit door alarm was buzzing until the plane left the ground and the fuselage flexed enough to get a seal. The fight itself was fine but that left a questionable impression.
      - rootusrootus 3y ago
        My last flight on an Embraer was in turbulent weather and at one point the plane dropped a good bit in a downdraft and when the wings caught us there was a tremendous bang that went through the entire plane. Suddenly I wanted to be on the ground in the worst way, it wasn't a sound I like to hear an airplane make when I'm riding in it...

monkeynotes 3y ago

Is there a reason to isolate this QA culture to just the Max production line? I'm concerned about anything they have produced recently.

psunavy03 3y ago
No, they also got in hot water with the Air Force after the Air Force found tools in a KC-46 fuel tank . . .

drstewart 3y ago

So what are your thoughts on people who won't take the vaccine because they don't trust pharma companies and the FDA? Also, what are your thoughts on the EASA and why they haven't banned the Max? I find it hilarious how many people who mock people who "don't trust the experts" and "do their own research" suddenly engage in the same thing when it comes to other domains. Make no mistake: anti-Maxxers are kinfolk to anti-vaxxers, even if you don't want to admit it.

zaptheimpaler 3y ago
Yes these are clearly identical situations with no difference at all! /s
- drstewart 3y ago
  You're right, in one situation you have people rejecting a product with years of research vetted by regulators around the world because they don't like the business practices and politics of the organizations behind it. On the other, you have... the same exact thing. Whoops. They are the same.
  - inferiorhuman 3y ago
    Assuming you're not being intentionally obtuse: the FDA makes some decisions purely out of politics (e.g. many schedule 1 drugs) and they make other decisions based on higher tolerance of risk in certain situations. Perhaps the FAA should slap a black box warning on the 737 to regain credibility.
    - drstewart 3y ago
      You're arguing my point. Both anti-vaxxers and anti-Maxers believe the regulatory agencies are corrupt and politicking, therefore they substitute their own scientific opinions where they feel like it.
      - inferiorhuman 3y ago

drak0n1c 3y ago

In contrast, the relatively recent Boeing 787 has an impeccable track record and has become the most comfortable long distance aircraft. Is it a matter of separate teams, managerial era, or something else? The models with issues appear to be the older ones with retrofits. Perhaps there are failure vulnerabilities when mixing today's computer-reliant design into past institutional-knowledge-reliant human design.

cschmatzler 3y ago
The 787 is absolutely plagued with quality control issues. In particular, deliveries were stopped for almost two full years from September 2020 to August 2022, with more issues found recently. The Charleston plant is considered the worse one compared to Everett. https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boeing-discovers-another-quality-flaw-on-787-delaying-deliveries-again/ https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boein...
- buildsjets 3y ago
  Production of the 787 was consolidated in South Carolina in 2021. https://www.heraldnet.com/business/last-everett-built-boeing-787-rolls-off-the-assembly-line/ https://www.heraldnet.com/business/last-everett-built-boeing...
cibyr 3y ago
The 787's record is somewhat less than impeccable if you consider the multiple lithium-ion battery fires: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Boeing_787_Dreamliner_grounding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Boeing_787_Dreamliner_gro...
MattGaiser 3y ago
> the relatively recent Boeing 787 has an impeccable track record It was also grounded for a period.
darrenf 3y ago
“Impeccable” is doing a lot of work there! The maiden flight was 2 years late, a series of failures caused the first delivery to take another 2 years, fractures were found in wings… I could go on, this article has a timeline of just the things which went wrong up to 2014: https://www.ibtimes.com/boeing-787-complete-timeline-dreamliners-legacy-failure-after-cracks-discovered-wings-1560491 https://www.ibtimes.com/boeing-787-complete-timeline-dreamli...