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Are there any plans to offer larger batteries and/or improve battery efficiency? From what I've read battery life is still an issue many seem to be having. Wit

by esskay 3y ago

Are there any plans to offer larger batteries and/or improve battery efficiency? From what I've read battery life is still an issue many seem to be having. With the greatest respect it's 2024, a laptop should be capable of 8 hours at the very minimum for a mid range model but I'm seeing a lot of people getting sub 2 hours. The 16 ticks all the boxes for me but I've held off for now as having the possibility of worse battery life than my old 2015 mac isn't as you can imagine making for a compelling upgrade.

nrp 3y ago
For reference, here is Notebookcheck's review stating 9 hours of real world battery life in web browsing (though on Windows): https://www.notebookcheck.net/Radeon-RX-7700S-performance-debut-Framework-Laptop-16-review.790807.0.html#toc-7:~:text=search-,Battery%20Life,-Small%20180%20W https://www.notebookcheck.net/Radeon-RX-7700S-performance-de... For Linux, when following our installation guides for power optimization, power consumption with integrated graphics should be similar. Edit: Tom's Hardware similarly reports 9 hours on Windows (with Graphics Module installed): https://www.tomshardware.com/laptops/framework-laptop-16-review#:~:text=If%20you%27re%20comparing%20the%20Framework%20Laptop%2016%20to%20gaming%20laptops%2C%20it%20did%20a%20solid%20job%20on%20our%20battery%20test https://www.tomshardware.com/laptops/framework-laptop-16-rev....
- oDot 3y ago
  Can you elaborate more about the tradeoffs here? I'm in the same boat, looking for as light as possible with a much battery as possible, was banking on the 16 yet we get 9 hours instead of (an assumed) ~10-11, and 2.1/2.4kg. Somehow the Thinkpad Extreme X1 and the new Zephyrus G16 have similar CPUs, dGPUs, a >90Whr battery and they weigh less than 2kg. Where's most the weight going? Will I be able to buy a FW 16 and eliminate weight to achieve similar specs? Literally asking about using a "stripped down version".
  - theossuary 3y ago
    Frankly that weight is from the modularity of the system. To build something repairable/modular requires scaffolding this isn't necessary if you solder and glue everything together; that's why companies like Apple do it. You are giving up some things in order to get the promised repairability of a framework. If you want the lightest laptop with the longest battery life, you'd get a Mac. If you want the best bang for your buck go with a basic Ultrabook. If your willing to have a bit more weight, size and a bit less battery in exchange for repairability/customization, that's the niche framework fits well.
- ParetoOptimal 3y ago
  One huge caveat that makes me most unhappy with my framework 13 purchase is power draw on HDMI BIOS bug gives me 1-2 hours battery life. As a result, its beginning to resemble a paperweight.
hecanjog 3y ago
I'm surprised to be reading that, honestly. I have a first batch framework 13 without any upgrades and I spent the summer working with it outside. Nothing super crazy, 4-6 hour stretches in the park, but I never remember cutting it close with the battery. As long as we're sharing anecdotes, I'm happy with the battery life FWIW... Edit: I'm running linux. I don't recall doing any battery optimization but maybe I installed or configured something a few years ago? I don't change things often. Another edit: I just checked and I do have TLP installed!
- jwells89 3y ago
  I think the expectation for battery life for most these days is closer to what can be found on e.g. M-series MacBooks or in the x86 world, HP Dragonfly and some ASUS Zenbooks, which range between 14 and 22 hours.
  - AnthonyMouse 3y ago
    Battery life is inherently a trade off against performance and weight. It's also a trade off against competence, because you can kill the battery right quick if drivers don't idle things properly, but even after you address that you still have the other thing. Which makes 16+ hour battery life an odd choice for most people. Who uses their laptop for 16 contiguous hours with no opportunity to charge? It could have been lighter or faster. Naturally Framework has the potential to make it flexible: Have a dual-use bay where one of the options is a second battery, and then if you want it you take the weight/battery life trade off in favor of battery life, and if not the machine can be lighter.
    - jwells89 3y ago
      Long battery life isn’t so much about contiguous use as it is about not needing to think about charging as often and being able to not carry a laptop charger brick on excursions. It also lets you still have “normal” laptop life left over after periods of high-intensity usage. Also generally speaking more efficient laptops are cooler which is generally a quality welcome in a device sometimes used in a person’s lap.
pella 3y ago
> Are there any plans to offer larger batteries and/or improve battery efficiency? discussion: https://community.frame.work/t/simple-extra-battery-for-the-expansion-bay/35475 https://community.frame.work/t/simple-extra-battery-for-the-...
cassepipe 3y ago
Very likely. They already announced recently a better battery for the 13 models so I don't see why they wouldn't if they have the opportunity
TkTech 3y ago
Battery is what prevents me from taking my 13 framework with me when traveling. I spend most of my time in pycharm, rebuild docker containers constantly, and have celery + postgres + redis running full tilt. The fan is running constantly, it's always burning hot, and the battery lasts under 2 hours (if I'm really lucky). Previous generation Macbook running the same workload last for 6+ hours. That said, for someone who isn't going to be running every core at 100% all the time, I'd still recommend it. Edit: Oh, and under arch with the latest kernel, I find many monitors that cannot display video output over usb-c, like the Dell U4919DW.
- nathancahill 3y ago
  Mildly curious what kind of task requires that usage profile on a laptop (in general but especially while traveling?)
  - adastra22 3y ago
    You don’t dev on a laptop?
  - TkTech 3y ago
    When I occasionally go into the office it's a ~4 hour round trip by train, and I work during that time. It's simply running a dev environment.
  - callalex 3y ago
    I think you need to clarify your question because the comment you are replying to clearly states the workload they have?
- olddustytrail 3y ago
  At the end of the day, all the work a CPU does turns into heat. If you want less heat you need the CPU to do fewer calculations. If you have processes pegging CPUs at 100% and you don't want them to, then use a cgroup to limit their CPU time.
  - 3y ago
unethical_ban 3y ago
I don't know about my 100-0 battery time. What I know is that suspend on Fedora/Framework is *not* valid for overnight or longer sessions. My battery will drain 50% in two days on suspend, vs weeks for a MacBook. I now make sure to save my work and shut the laptop off completely at the end of a session.

by esskay 3y ago

nrp 3y ago

For reference, here is Notebookcheck's review stating 9 hours of real world battery life in web browsing (though on Windows): https://www.notebookcheck.net/Radeon-RX-7700S-performance-debut-Framework-Laptop-16-review.790807.0.html#toc-7:~:text=search-,Battery%20Life,-Small%20180%20W https://www.notebookcheck.net/Radeon-RX-7700S-performance-de... For Linux, when following our installation guides for power optimization, power consumption with integrated graphics should be similar. Edit: Tom's Hardware similarly reports 9 hours on Windows (with Graphics Module installed): https://www.tomshardware.com/laptops/framework-laptop-16-review#:~:text=If%20you%27re%20comparing%20the%20Framework%20Laptop%2016%20to%20gaming%20laptops%2C%20it%20did%20a%20solid%20job%20on%20our%20battery%20test https://www.tomshardware.com/laptops/framework-laptop-16-rev....

oDot 3y ago
Can you elaborate more about the tradeoffs here? I'm in the same boat, looking for as light as possible with a much battery as possible, was banking on the 16 yet we get 9 hours instead of (an assumed) ~10-11, and 2.1/2.4kg. Somehow the Thinkpad Extreme X1 and the new Zephyrus G16 have similar CPUs, dGPUs, a >90Whr battery and they weigh less than 2kg. Where's most the weight going? Will I be able to buy a FW 16 and eliminate weight to achieve similar specs? Literally asking about using a "stripped down version".
- theossuary 3y ago
  Frankly that weight is from the modularity of the system. To build something repairable/modular requires scaffolding this isn't necessary if you solder and glue everything together; that's why companies like Apple do it. You are giving up some things in order to get the promised repairability of a framework. If you want the lightest laptop with the longest battery life, you'd get a Mac. If you want the best bang for your buck go with a basic Ultrabook. If your willing to have a bit more weight, size and a bit less battery in exchange for repairability/customization, that's the niche framework fits well.
ParetoOptimal 3y ago
One huge caveat that makes me most unhappy with my framework 13 purchase is power draw on HDMI BIOS bug gives me 1-2 hours battery life. As a result, its beginning to resemble a paperweight.

hecanjog 3y ago

I'm surprised to be reading that, honestly. I have a first batch framework 13 without any upgrades and I spent the summer working with it outside. Nothing super crazy, 4-6 hour stretches in the park, but I never remember cutting it close with the battery. As long as we're sharing anecdotes, I'm happy with the battery life FWIW... Edit: I'm running linux. I don't recall doing any battery optimization but maybe I installed or configured something a few years ago? I don't change things often. Another edit: I just checked and I do have TLP installed!

jwells89 3y ago
I think the expectation for battery life for most these days is closer to what can be found on e.g. M-series MacBooks or in the x86 world, HP Dragonfly and some ASUS Zenbooks, which range between 14 and 22 hours.
- AnthonyMouse 3y ago
  Battery life is inherently a trade off against performance and weight. It's also a trade off against competence, because you can kill the battery right quick if drivers don't idle things properly, but even after you address that you still have the other thing. Which makes 16+ hour battery life an odd choice for most people. Who uses their laptop for 16 contiguous hours with no opportunity to charge? It could have been lighter or faster. Naturally Framework has the potential to make it flexible: Have a dual-use bay where one of the options is a second battery, and then if you want it you take the weight/battery life trade off in favor of battery life, and if not the machine can be lighter.
  - jwells89 3y ago
    Long battery life isn’t so much about contiguous use as it is about not needing to think about charging as often and being able to not carry a laptop charger brick on excursions. It also lets you still have “normal” laptop life left over after periods of high-intensity usage. Also generally speaking more efficient laptops are cooler which is generally a quality welcome in a device sometimes used in a person’s lap.

pella 3y ago

> Are there any plans to offer larger batteries and/or improve battery efficiency? discussion: https://community.frame.work/t/simple-extra-battery-for-the-expansion-bay/35475 https://community.frame.work/t/simple-extra-battery-for-the-...

cassepipe 3y ago

Very likely. They already announced recently a better battery for the 13 models so I don't see why they wouldn't if they have the opportunity

TkTech 3y ago

Battery is what prevents me from taking my 13 framework with me when traveling. I spend most of my time in pycharm, rebuild docker containers constantly, and have celery + postgres + redis running full tilt. The fan is running constantly, it's always burning hot, and the battery lasts under 2 hours (if I'm really lucky). Previous generation Macbook running the same workload last for 6+ hours. That said, for someone who isn't going to be running every core at 100% all the time, I'd still recommend it. Edit: Oh, and under arch with the latest kernel, I find many monitors that cannot display video output over usb-c, like the Dell U4919DW.

nathancahill 3y ago
Mildly curious what kind of task requires that usage profile on a laptop (in general but especially while traveling?)
- adastra22 3y ago
  You don’t dev on a laptop?
- TkTech 3y ago
  When I occasionally go into the office it's a ~4 hour round trip by train, and I work during that time. It's simply running a dev environment.
- callalex 3y ago
  I think you need to clarify your question because the comment you are replying to clearly states the workload they have?
olddustytrail 3y ago
At the end of the day, all the work a CPU does turns into heat. If you want less heat you need the CPU to do fewer calculations. If you have processes pegging CPUs at 100% and you don't want them to, then use a cgroup to limit their CPU time.
- 3y ago

unethical_ban 3y ago

I don't know about my 100-0 battery time. What I know is that suspend on Fedora/Framework is *not* valid for overnight or longer sessions. My battery will drain 50% in two days on suspend, vs weeks for a MacBook. I now make sure to save my work and shut the laptop off completely at the end of a session.