6 ms·
One thing to keep in mind is the geographic distribution of these things. They're mostly found in the province of Gallia and Britain, and not in other regions.
by nemo 3y ago
One thing to keep in mind is the geographic distribution of these things. They're mostly found in the province of Gallia and Britain, and not in other regions. There'd be a lot of metalworkers in Rome and the surrounding cities in central and south Italy, but no artifacts like this have been found, and they've found > 100 of them now so the distribution is probably significant.
- lithos 3y agoThe cities likely had some form of guild system to prove claims like this. The middle of nowhere you could prove yourself with a standardized piece of work. ___ Though personally I like the "glove grandma" video of her crocheting gloves with the pieces.
- mcphage 3y ago> The cities likely had some form of guild system to prove claims like this. > The middle of nowhere you could prove yourself with a standardized piece of work. Which is why it's significant that none have been found in Rome, or any of the major warmer cities.
- yreg 3y agoWhy? This could have been just some local system in that region.
- TSiege 3y agoI think you and the poster are in agreement. The significance is that you wouldn't need knitted gloves in Mediterranean climates. So if this was for some other use or as a novelty, you'd expect it evenly distributed throughout the empire
- ffgjgf1 3y ago> you'd expect it evenly distributed throughout the empire Why? Large premodern states were almost never strongly culturally homogeneous. Especially below the upper class/elite level.
- imglorp 3y agoThe knitting aid is persuasive. It fits with the geography, explains the different hole sizes, and it explains the knobs. Here's one of those vids; there are many more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76AvV601yJ0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76AvV601yJ0
- SamBam 3y agoI don't really buy that theory. There's no explanation for why it needs to be this very-hard-to-cast bronze dodecahedron, instead of just a wooden board with pegs and holes, which is all that would be needed for the video above.
- jzebedee 3y agoIt's possible that most were made out of common materials. Only those made of something sufficiently resilient survived for us to find.
- prox 3y agoBasically a show off piece for those with enough coin!
- atoav 3y agoWhy not? If it was a common item, it would be natural that there a deluxe versions for e.g. the royal household. The cheap and simple versions would have rotted away by now.
- stevenwoo 3y agoThe article mentions that none of them exhibit wear marks that are characteristic of tools.
- Rickster67 3y ago[flagged]
- shuntress 3y agoYou are trying to make the facts fit the theory. Also, if we assume this were some kind of guild-related standard, it becomes even more odd that they are not mentioned in any accounts or records.
- ffgjgf1 3y agoWe have very few accounts or records surviving in general (and basically none at all from certain periods). There are a few books about agriculture, architecture, medicine etc. surviving but thats it. Basically all non political/military/religious/cultural texts had been lost
- nemo 3y agoWhy none in Roman North Africa or all the other provinces in the east which were also "the middle of nowhere" with the same needs of metal work as Gallia/Britain.
- Rickster67 3y ago[flagged]
- mkl 3y agoCultures and traditions are different in different places, even with gigabit internet and ubiquitous literacy.
- nemo 3y agoRoman North Africa was thoroughly Romanized by the era these start showing up, and the eastern provinces were as well. The might be some cultural reason these show up where they do, seems likely, it's very, very dubious that this cultural reason had to do with metalworkers identifying themselves since the sort of Roman metal working technology and culture around it was actually very standardized across the empire at this time.
- mkl 3y agoWell, the regions the dodecahedrons have been found were mostly not thoroughly Romanised, right? From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_dodecahedron https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_dodecahedron: "at least 116 similar objects have been found in Austria, Belgium, France, Germany, Hungary, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Switzerland and the United Kingdom".
- nemo 3y agoNo, that's not right at all. Those areas were all part of the Roman empire and thoroughly Romanized as well. They used generally identical Roman technologies in Britain as North Africa or Italy, spoke the same Latin, used the same building styles, clothing styles varied primarily by how many layers they wore, they had the same legal system, and shared Roman arts and culture. Man of those countries speak Germanic languages now since they were invaded by Germanic speaking people after the Western Roman Empire collapsed, but there's still Roman ruins and old Roman cities to be found in all of those countries.
- KingOfCoders 3y agoAs someone from the former capital of Raetia ;-) I might add "Since then, at least 116 similar objects have been found in Austria, Belgium, France, Germany, Hungary, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Switzerland and the United Kingdom" PS: Still humbled and amazed to find my small hometown of Cambodunum (70k people) on maps of major Roman roads like https://latin4everyone.files.wordpress.com/2017/09/roman_roads_24_jun.png https://latin4everyone.files.wordpress.com/2017/09/roman_roa...
- arp242 3y agoThe Roman Empire wasn't homogeneous. Going from Rome to Lyon was about two weeks of travel. Paris and London about a month. Possibly (much) longer depending on season and how much funds you had. You can imagine how often the average metalworker from Rome visited these places.