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I would not put too much stock into James Hoffman's confident assertions. He claims to be able to taste difference between different coffee grinders - but doesn

I would not put too much stock into James Hoffman's confident assertions. He claims to be able to taste difference between different coffee grinders - but doesn't do it in a blind test.

nerdponx 3y ago
He has done plenty of blind tests on his channel.
- 2devnull 3y ago
  I trust a lot of what he says, but not everything. He has an interest in the machines and his own career, not just in the coffee. Trust but verify.
  - nerdponx 3y ago
    Of course, same goes for any other coffee-expert-content-creator (eg Lance Hedrick) or really any other expert in any other field.
  - nikau 3y ago
    > I trust a lot of what he says, but not everything. He has an interest in the machines and his own career, not just in the coffee. Trust but verify. Yes, as an example his lack of reviews on eureka grinders is very noticeable in comparison videos.
samvher 3y ago
Just tried out his suggestions combined with some of the comments there (what I tried: put boiling water in the moka to start, pre-heat my electric stove while preparing the moka, use a full but not overly full basket, and avoid sputtering by actively controlling the applied heat with the lid open and taking the moka off the heat the moment sputtering starts) and my impression was that it makes a noticeable difference. Specifically, I had always just accepted that moka coffee is fast and easy but bitter, and this was much less bitter: I preferred it and I think I'll keep these changes. YMMV of course!
- wolfpack_mick 3y ago
  I'm right there with you on all those things! One thing to add: If you want to think even less in the morning. Just weigh the beans and water with a kitchen scale. 18 gr of beans, 160gr of (boiling) water (basically a 1:9 ratio regarding on the size of your basket).
- j1elo 3y ago
  The CT scan page https://www.scanofthemonth.com/scans/coffee https://www.scanofthemonth.com/scans/coffee mentions that detail too: Take it off the heat before the volcanic sputtering phase at the end; this only adds bitterness to your coffee.. Maybe that's exactly what you noticed. I cannot think how starting from already hot water vs. letting the water warm up and boil from the stove, could make any noticeable difference.
  - pivo 3y ago
    > I cannot think how starting from already hot water vs. letting the water warm up and boil from the stove, could make any noticeable difference. The idea is just that the beans don't get cooked as much by the heat ahead of the brew phase. For me it's made a big difference.
    - samvher 3y ago
      I also think there might be more of a heat gradient in the moka itself, i.e. the upper compartment including the vertical tube might end up with a lower temperature throughout the process.
h8hawk 3y ago
Many people, including myself can taste day and night difference from result of different grinders. You can easily verify this by variance of particle distribution of different grinders.
- Mikhail_K 3y ago
  Some people claim to be able to tell the difference between red and white wines with ease, but fail to do it when red dye is added to the white.
tedmiston 3y ago
The difference between quality grinders is super easy to replicate. Buy some freshly roasted beans from a specialty coffee roaster, then have the shop ground half and grind the other half at home on your home grinder of choice. High-end (specialty coffee standard) commercial grinders produce a tighter variance amongst the ground coffee particles which leads to a way more even extraction, i.e. a more pleasant and balanced taste in the cup. Perhaps the most common model is the Mahlkonig EK43S, which is a ~$3,000 grinder. Home grinders are far cheaper, in the range of ~$75–300 or so for popular ones, and tend to produce a broader variance of particle sizes which leads to big particles ("boulders") getting overextracted, thus imparting bitter flavors; and small particles ("fines") getting underextracted, thus imparting sour flavors. The higher quality and lighter roast your coffee is, the more noticeable the impact of the grinder is. You don't have to take James Hoffmann's word for it at all, this is standard issue coffee grinder theory 101, which any specialty coffee professional would agree with. It's also easily testable at home, even if you haven't experiencend it in an experiment context. I took a short class on the theory of coffee once and the major experiments were comparing the same beans ground across different grinders (and then with or without use of a coffee sieve for further refinement) and the same beans across different brewing methods and techniques. The particle size distribution from the grinder is one of the most important variables in the whole process.
- Mikhail_K 3y ago
  Only double-blind tests have any validity and those are not "super easy" to do oneself.

I would not put too much stock into James Hoffman's confident assertions. He claims to be able to taste difference between different coffee grinders - but doesn't do it in a blind test.

nerdponx 3y ago

He has done plenty of blind tests on his channel.

2devnull 3y ago
I trust a lot of what he says, but not everything. He has an interest in the machines and his own career, not just in the coffee. Trust but verify.
- nerdponx 3y ago
  Of course, same goes for any other coffee-expert-content-creator (eg Lance Hedrick) or really any other expert in any other field.
- nikau 3y ago
  > I trust a lot of what he says, but not everything. He has an interest in the machines and his own career, not just in the coffee. Trust but verify. Yes, as an example his lack of reviews on eureka grinders is very noticeable in comparison videos.

samvher 3y ago

Just tried out his suggestions combined with some of the comments there (what I tried: put boiling water in the moka to start, pre-heat my electric stove while preparing the moka, use a full but not overly full basket, and avoid sputtering by actively controlling the applied heat with the lid open and taking the moka off the heat the moment sputtering starts) and my impression was that it makes a noticeable difference. Specifically, I had always just accepted that moka coffee is fast and easy but bitter, and this was much less bitter: I preferred it and I think I'll keep these changes. YMMV of course!

wolfpack_mick 3y ago
I'm right there with you on all those things! One thing to add: If you want to think even less in the morning. Just weigh the beans and water with a kitchen scale. 18 gr of beans, 160gr of (boiling) water (basically a 1:9 ratio regarding on the size of your basket).
j1elo 3y ago
The CT scan page https://www.scanofthemonth.com/scans/coffee https://www.scanofthemonth.com/scans/coffee mentions that detail too: Take it off the heat before the volcanic sputtering phase at the end; this only adds bitterness to your coffee.. Maybe that's exactly what you noticed. I cannot think how starting from already hot water vs. letting the water warm up and boil from the stove, could make any noticeable difference.
- pivo 3y ago
  > I cannot think how starting from already hot water vs. letting the water warm up and boil from the stove, could make any noticeable difference. The idea is just that the beans don't get cooked as much by the heat ahead of the brew phase. For me it's made a big difference.
  - samvher 3y ago
    I also think there might be more of a heat gradient in the moka itself, i.e. the upper compartment including the vertical tube might end up with a lower temperature throughout the process.

h8hawk 3y ago

Many people, including myself can taste day and night difference from result of different grinders. You can easily verify this by variance of particle distribution of different grinders.

Mikhail_K 3y ago
Some people claim to be able to tell the difference between red and white wines with ease, but fail to do it when red dye is added to the white.

tedmiston 3y ago

The difference between quality grinders is super easy to replicate. Buy some freshly roasted beans from a specialty coffee roaster, then have the shop ground half and grind the other half at home on your home grinder of choice. High-end (specialty coffee standard) commercial grinders produce a tighter variance amongst the ground coffee particles which leads to a way more even extraction, i.e. a more pleasant and balanced taste in the cup. Perhaps the most common model is the Mahlkonig EK43S, which is a ~$3,000 grinder. Home grinders are far cheaper, in the range of ~$75–300 or so for popular ones, and tend to produce a broader variance of particle sizes which leads to big particles ("boulders") getting overextracted, thus imparting bitter flavors; and small particles ("fines") getting underextracted, thus imparting sour flavors. The higher quality and lighter roast your coffee is, the more noticeable the impact of the grinder is. You don't have to take James Hoffmann's word for it at all, this is standard issue coffee grinder theory 101, which any specialty coffee professional would agree with. It's also easily testable at home, even if you haven't experiencend it in an experiment context. I took a short class on the theory of coffee once and the major experiments were comparing the same beans ground across different grinders (and then with or without use of a coffee sieve for further refinement) and the same beans across different brewing methods and techniques. The particle size distribution from the grinder is one of the most important variables in the whole process.

Mikhail_K 3y ago
Only double-blind tests have any validity and those are not "super easy" to do oneself.