6 ms·
Sex differences in work preferences among gifted men and women
- prepend 3y agoI find this kind of data interesting and hope we can pick out what’s biological and what’s social/cultural. It seems like there used to be more of these “look at these interesting results” type discussions but are fewer now that just posting things can upset people and gather lots of folks meta debating instead of digging into knowledge development and understanding.
- asylteltine 3y agoIsn’t everything biological? How can something magically only be cultural? There is a root of behavior and that’s biology. Men are on average larger, more aggressive, stronger, etc. of course this would influence culture.
- AlecSchueler 3y agoSo how do you explain things that vary from culture to culture, or that drift over time?
- asylteltine 3y agoSuch as?
- im3w1l 3y agoNorth and South korea are a striking example of very different cultures, despite very similar biology.
- andsoitis 3y agogender roles such as division of labor has shifted over time, for one. men wearing makeup has a long and fascinating history from ancient times, to the Middle Ages, renaissance, 19th and 20th centuries, and the modern resurgence.
- AlecSchueler 3y agoTrousers for men, dresses for women.
- red-iron-pine 3y agoclearly, togas -- essentially dresses -- mean that the Ancient Romans were almost entirely 100% women
- mitthrowaway2 3y ago"In early 17th-century Europe, high heels were a sign of masculinity and high social status." -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-heeled_shoe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-heeled_shoe
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- prepend 3y agoI don’t think only, but can be a factor. For example, I think lots of fashion is some factor of culture and not biology. That’s why costumes are different in Germany than China. And there are things that are biology (height, etc). It’s interesting to find what’s nature and what’s nurture.
- corethree 3y agoRelevant study: Look up the gender equality paradox in Nordic countries. Nordic countries are the most egalitarian countries in the world that offer the best equal opportunities for men and women. The initial conclusions were that as Nordic countries made opportunities for either gender more equal the differences in choice for careers between genders became more pronounced. There's various cooked interpretations of the result from agenda based groups but those are the initial results. This person illustrates the whole study the best: https://youtu.be/_iudkPi4_sY?si=DPtr46-vw94sa70v https://youtu.be/_iudkPi4_sY?si=DPtr46-vw94sa70v It's hard to draw a definitive conclusion from the study due to all the controversy and various parties cooking the numbers for their own agenda but take from it what you will, but the initial conclusion was that most of this is biological.
- andsoitis 3y agoHere is the original source: https://www.stevestewartwilliams.com/p/sex-differences-in-work-preferences https://www.stevestewartwilliams.com/p/sex-differences-in-wo...
- asylteltine 3y ago[flagged]
- andsoitis 3y agobe the change you want to see
- corethree 3y ago[flagged]
- asylteltine 3y ago> Males are obviously preventing females from taking more risks and forcing them to work under 40 hours. This is a claim that just smears all men without evidence. How are all men obviously forcing women to work less? Have you considered that women prefer to work less and make less money in return for a quieter life?
- corethree 3y agoWhy would I consider that? Men and women are equal. Your statement implies they are not. Women and men being equal is intrinsically logical. It is an axiom that is true without proof. To say the opposite in public would get you to rightly lose your job and get ridiculed as you are obviously lying and furthering your agenda of male oppression. Let us continue this discourse so others can see the absurdity of your logic.
- readthenotes1 3y ago[flagged]
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago> we ARE allowed to talk about gender differences > But we can't lie about gender differences It might be worth rethinking this. How much of what you believe about gender differences is cultural? Are people lying if they grew up in a different culture and learned different norms?
- tokai 3y agoI thought Paul didn't respect behavioral psychology.[0] Guess it depends on the bias its pushing. [0]https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1476550040135024648?lang=da https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1476550040135024648?lang=da
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y agoWith this tweet, he’s bringing attention to a particular set of data and not supposing any conclusions. Not quite the same as the “replication crisis” he mentions in that tweet. What do you think of the data being presented here?
- brodouevencode 3y agoThat's quite the jump to get to that conclusion.
- OJFord 3y agoPerhaps most interesting (or rather surprising) to me are the ones were it goes an opposite way (whether male or female that more often holds the preference) according to whether it's the 'Top STEM doctoral students' class, or 'Profoundly gifted top 0.01%'. Is that because of STEM or academic career inclination vs. general giftedness? Or is it just pointing to a small sample and not statistically significant?
- rnadomvirlabe 3y agoDoes anyone have the study where this originated? This chart is quite difficult to read, and it's not clear how the data was collected or what amount of overlap exists between the people in each category. Also, what were the sample sizes? Are the men and women in approximately the same careers? These are preferences; were individuals asked to rank preferences or did they rate each preference independently? What does a standard deviation mean here (units)? I take the display to mean that, for example, the sampled profoundly gifted women prefer to have satisfaction in their work much more than the sampled profoundly gifted men. Or does it mean that women rank satisfaction over other items more than men but they really do care equally about satisfaction in a nominal sense? Can anyone else chime in on their interpretation? -- EDIT: Link to study https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/00169862231175831 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/00169862231175831
- andsoitis 3y agoFor interpretation: https://www.stevestewartwilliams.com/p/sex-differences-in-work-preferences https://www.stevestewartwilliams.com/p/sex-differences-in-wo... (seems like paulg got the chart from this guy's tweet, which refers to the article I link above, which is informed by the study you linked to)
- bachmeier 3y agoIf anyone thinks you learn something from this type of exercise, do a brief thought experiment. Who will say they value more highly having a job at a company with protections against sexual harrassment: an attractive young female, or a middle-aged overweight male.
- corethree 3y agoAs a middle aged heterosexual male I consider sexual harassment from hot young babes to be highly highly offensive and disgusting.
- bachmeier 3y agoSexual harassment is largely irrelevant to a "middle-aged overweight male". You can find it offensive and disgusting, but if you never experience it, it's not going to have any impact when you choose between two job offers.
- corethree 3y agoI find it more offensive if it's a hot babe doing the harassment. Someone told me I might be homosexual but that was just even more offensive. Also you added the word "overweight". I never said I was overweight. You calling me fat? I'm Offended.
- bongoman37 3y agoYea, he casually added that term as if people wouldn't notice it. High earning, attractive, middle aged men are often targets for sexual harassment by women but it is not taken seriously at all.
- corethree 3y agotbf I was kidding, but his response was straight up malicious. You're not wrong though, that's a real issue.
- jpcfl 3y agoI would surmise that a great deal of this is biological, but a radical gender theorist would likely rebut that these differences are due to social conditioning. He would say that men/males are conditioned to take more risk, conditioned to desire working with _things_, and conditioned to desire prestige in their jobs. How would one go about designing a study that eliminates the variable of social conditioning when trying to study sociological differences between the sexes, or is that even important to indicate these sentiments are/aren't linked to biology?
- gaganyaan 3y agoHere's one study that tried to eliminate that variable, by using rhesus monkeys: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2583786/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2583786/
- jpcfl 3y agoThank you! I have to say, I find the gender-neutral toy layout here in CA stores very annoying when I go shopping for children's toys. It's bizarre to me that the state has mandated it, and I was really disappointed when Newsom glossed over this question in his interview with Maher last week.
- bongoman37 3y ago[dead]