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Can someone high level finally just tell me why they’re doing RTO. I really want to know, is it just a power thing? What bother me is that they went with open s

by mlazos 3y ago

Can someone high level finally just tell me why they’re doing RTO. I really want to know, is it just a power thing? What bother me is that they went with open space to improve productivity, but we all know that was to cram more people into less space. So why not just reduce costs even more and make employees work at home! Like it’s been so inconsistent I really want an opinion from someone on the inside.

clausecker 3y ago
Having talked to a few management people, it seems to just be the human nature: you feel more in control over your subordinates if you can watch them work. Even if they are just as productive from the comfort of their own homes, how can you really be sure if you don't observe them being busy? They might be secretly slacking off!
islandert 3y ago
Not high level but a RTO policy seems like an easy way to downsize without having to fire people now that interest rates are higher.
whynotmaybe 3y ago
The way I see it. Imagine you work with a bad and slow laptop and your employer provides you with a new one, 1000x more powerful but the keyboard layout is different, it's dvorak. You can then replace the keyboard with a layout you know or adapt the way you work by learning dvorak and to touch type. What would you do if your productivity is at stakes and you could lose your job if your output slows down? Transpose this to managers who "know" how to manage in a physical space and with small talk and now have to adapt to remote management. They usually don't have any strong metric to measure productivity outside of seeing you work with their eyes, knowing what exactly you're working on and you being there whenever they need you. They usually see their own productivity as THE indicator of productivity for their team. Is it now better for THEM to bring back the old "org layout" or to learn the new one and admit they don't know how to measure productivity ? For all the managers I've seen, they have no problem with fast evolving task they can delegate, but they are reluctant on anything that forces them to evolve, they want to evolve their own way. Like many of us.
- UncleMeat 3y ago
  This doesn't really match my observation, at least at a megacorp. Line managers seem to support remote work at roughly the same rate as ICs. The mandates are coming from execs, who are absolutely nowhere near the "I need smalltalk to understand productivity" situation. I instead see this as part of an industry-wide pushback against rising compensation and power among engineers.
cqqxo4zV46cp 3y ago
There are plenty of people voicing justification if you listen. The reality is that a lot of people, especially in dev communities, are similarly stubborn and will cry “you’re lying!” If the given justification isn’t one of the 2-3 accusatory things that anti-RTO people have come up with: “interest in commercial real estate”, “desire to see the peons work”, etc.
- ehaughee 3y ago
  As someone who had been listening, I've heard maybe one good faith justification (onboarding and mentoring of new hires) and a multitude of vague "synergy" excuses. Honestly asking and sincerely listening, are there others?
iLoveOncall 3y ago
For big companies: they get tax cuts from local governments in they have butts in seats and they can get rid of some people without layoff. For smaller companies: "big companies do it, there must be a good reason, let's do it too!".
JohnFen 3y ago
I think it's a combination of two things: insecure management; and that companies have large ongoing real-estate expenses they can't get out of, and that doesn't look so bad if the leased spaces are full of people.

by mlazos 3y ago

clausecker 3y ago

Having talked to a few management people, it seems to just be the human nature: you feel more in control over your subordinates if you can watch them work. Even if they are just as productive from the comfort of their own homes, how can you really be sure if you don't observe them being busy? They might be secretly slacking off!

islandert 3y ago

Not high level but a RTO policy seems like an easy way to downsize without having to fire people now that interest rates are higher.

whynotmaybe 3y ago

The way I see it. Imagine you work with a bad and slow laptop and your employer provides you with a new one, 1000x more powerful but the keyboard layout is different, it's dvorak. You can then replace the keyboard with a layout you know or adapt the way you work by learning dvorak and to touch type. What would you do if your productivity is at stakes and you could lose your job if your output slows down? Transpose this to managers who "know" how to manage in a physical space and with small talk and now have to adapt to remote management. They usually don't have any strong metric to measure productivity outside of seeing you work with their eyes, knowing what exactly you're working on and you being there whenever they need you. They usually see their own productivity as THE indicator of productivity for their team. Is it now better for THEM to bring back the old "org layout" or to learn the new one and admit they don't know how to measure productivity ? For all the managers I've seen, they have no problem with fast evolving task they can delegate, but they are reluctant on anything that forces them to evolve, they want to evolve their own way. Like many of us.

UncleMeat 3y ago
This doesn't really match my observation, at least at a megacorp. Line managers seem to support remote work at roughly the same rate as ICs. The mandates are coming from execs, who are absolutely nowhere near the "I need smalltalk to understand productivity" situation. I instead see this as part of an industry-wide pushback against rising compensation and power among engineers.

cqqxo4zV46cp 3y ago

There are plenty of people voicing justification if you listen. The reality is that a lot of people, especially in dev communities, are similarly stubborn and will cry “you’re lying!” If the given justification isn’t one of the 2-3 accusatory things that anti-RTO people have come up with: “interest in commercial real estate”, “desire to see the peons work”, etc.

ehaughee 3y ago
As someone who had been listening, I've heard maybe one good faith justification (onboarding and mentoring of new hires) and a multitude of vague "synergy" excuses. Honestly asking and sincerely listening, are there others?

iLoveOncall 3y ago

For big companies: they get tax cuts from local governments in they have butts in seats and they can get rid of some people without layoff. For smaller companies: "big companies do it, there must be a good reason, let's do it too!".

JohnFen 3y ago

I think it's a combination of two things: insecure management; and that companies have large ongoing real-estate expenses they can't get out of, and that doesn't look so bad if the leased spaces are full of people.