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To me, the Moka pot is always a funny (and reliable) example of design and the many ways people make their own interpretations of it. Ask any friend to describe
by mittermayr 3y ago
To me, the Moka pot is always a funny (and reliable) example of design and the many ways people make their own interpretations of it. Ask any friend to describe how, exactly, they make coffee with it. There should only be one way, and everyone is sure that their way is the correct one. Yet, there are so many variations of this, it's crazy. From grind size (more coarse than espresso, less than filter), to grams and fill-level (brush off, or exact measure?), to those still convinced it needs tamping (it does not!). Then temperature (as hot as, gas stove burn-it-with-fire, or slow-build) and even lid philosophy (open while it heats, open after it has started bubbling) — and when to close it off, after the first bubbles, once it's been bubbling, until the water is gone, etc. Also, what beans and roast profile? Espresso? Crema? Filter?
Nuances, sure, but every single time I ask someone about their Moka pot, they have a slightly different way of using it than I have.
Case in point: I fill water up to just touching/under the valve, then use a medium-coarse grind with dark espresso beans, with enough coffee to fill the basket level, no tamping brushing off or touching. Then heat it hard on gas if available, leave the lid closed while it builds up but open immediately with the first bubble and put it off the heat. Let it continue for another half minute and then pour. And you?
- sharperguy 3y agoMost likely you've seen this, but it should be mentioned James Hoffman has spend some time experimenting with the Moka pot and has published his preferred technique on youtube [1] [1]. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfDLoIvb0w4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfDLoIvb0w4
- jarvist 3y agoThere's also a fantastic Youtube video in a neutron beam facility of a Moka pot, in which you can see the full process of brewing. The water and plastic handle appear 'black' as hydrogen scatters neutrons so strongly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VESMU7JfVHU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VESMU7JfVHU
- 317070 3y agoThere is also this gem of a website, where you can explore a 3D CT-scan of a Bialetti moka pot, to see all its features and flaws: https://www.scanofthemonth.com/scans/coffee https://www.scanofthemonth.com/scans/coffee
- viasfo 3y agoTheir scan viewer software now works on mobile devices: https://app.lumafield.com/project/a5a9c7ef-d1c9-426e-9e2a-632584589e25 https://app.lumafield.com/project/a5a9c7ef-d1c9-426e-9e2a-63...
- asymmetric 3y agoWow, it's really a shame about the new Bialetti pots. I've recently gotten one off Amazon and now I'm not sure if I should instead hunt for a used old model.
- ce4 3y agoWho knows if it wasn't counterfeit?
- secretsatan 3y agoI always wished they would make a transparent one
- ljf 3y agoPretty sure I saw someone with a glass one on youtube, but it wasn't as exciting to watch as I'd hoped. I'd still like one though. Found the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7FoqR9oCfI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7FoqR9oCfI
- Gormo 3y agoToo bad Scotty never time-traveled back to our 1984 with the formula for transparent aluminum.
- nunez 3y agoOf course James has a recipe for this.
- Mikhail_K 3y agoI would not put too much stock into James Hoffman's confident assertions. He claims to be able to taste difference between different coffee grinders - but doesn't do it in a blind test.
- nerdponx 3y agoHe has done plenty of blind tests on his channel.
- 2devnull 3y agoI trust a lot of what he says, but not everything. He has an interest in the machines and his own career, not just in the coffee. Trust but verify.
- nerdponx 3y agoOf course, same goes for any other coffee-expert-content-creator (eg Lance Hedrick) or really any other expert in any other field.
- nikau 3y ago> I trust a lot of what he says, but not everything. He has an interest in the machines and his own career, not just in the coffee. Trust but verify. Yes, as an example his lack of reviews on eureka grinders is very noticeable in comparison videos.
- samvher 3y agoJust tried out his suggestions combined with some of the comments there (what I tried: put boiling water in the moka to start, pre-heat my electric stove while preparing the moka, use a full but not overly full basket, and avoid sputtering by actively controlling the applied heat with the lid open and taking the moka off the heat the moment sputtering starts) and my impression was that it makes a noticeable difference. Specifically, I had always just accepted that moka coffee is fast and easy but bitter, and this was much less bitter: I preferred it and I think I'll keep these changes. YMMV of course!
- gv83 3y agoThe famous “coffee for people who don’t like coffee” video that has been a running gag in Italy for months!
- Xcelerate 3y agoWhat is the context of the gag? I like James Hoffman and his videos.
- gv83 3y agoItalian households throw the thing on the stove without such meticulous (and time expensive) ceremony every morning, so this falls under the classic “American can’t cook” gag I don’t even know if the guy is American, just anecdata from my Facebook feed
- nonameiguess 3y agoHe's English, not American, and became a coffee influencer like this after winning the World Barista Championship in 2007. This is, in fact, a "world" championship, not like the MLB World Series which is really just American. It's been held in the USA a few times, but also all over Europe, Australia, Japan, and Korea. Making coffee meticulously is hardly something specific to Americans or even typical of Americans. It's very weird you would even have this stereotype when the very word "barista" is Italian, the WBC itself started in Norway, and Europe in general is usually far more associated with fine cuisine and caring about craftmanship in food and drink than the US, which is associated with hot dogs, light beer, and deep frying everything in butter.
- fsckboy 3y ago>the very word "barista" is Italian now hol' up in English, we have a suffix -ist for a person who does something: machinist, pianist, flautist. In Italian, they instead use the suffixes -isto or -ista to mean the same thing (which suggests English got "ist" from Norman French) what does this particular -ista do? stands at a bar, that's why they are bar-isti. What's a bar, in Italy? well, "bar" not an Italian word, they borrowed the word from English.
- EasyMark 3y agoThat is way more than I'll ever do. I just use regular fresh ground coffee, some water, half and half, a teaspoon of sugar and you're good. He's right about lowering the heat though, but you can get 90% the same result with just fresh ground coffee and low heat, you don't need a ton of gadgets. I prefer the stainless steel pot to avoid aluminum leeching.
- nomilk 3y ago"It depends". Someone who prefers a slightly bitter coffee might enjoy slight tamping that slows the rate the water passes through the grounds and creates bitterness. But your point is accurate: everyone has a slightly different way. I'd argue irrespective of the exact variation, the Moka Pot outperforms most other mechanisms for making coffee (other than cafe espresso machine). Funnily, if you'd asked me at 6-monthly intervals for the ideal way to use a Moka Pot, I'd have given slightly different answers (i.e. each time I would have thought I'd mastered the technique, but by doing little experiments, and sometimes accidentally, I'd found slight improvements over the years).
- agubelu 3y agoCoffee nerd tip: if you want more bitterness, you're probably better off using less coffee for the same amount of water ("weakening" it a bit). If you tamp it, there's a greater chance that the water breaks an easier path through the coffee and doesn't flow evenly through all of it, which tastes worse.
- xinayder 3y agoMoka is not supposed to be tamped, as it will build up pressure and trigger the pressure relief valve.
- Marsymars 3y ago> But your point is accurate: everyone has a slightly different way. I'd argue irrespective of the exact variation, the Moka Pot outperforms most other mechanisms for making coffee (other than cafe espresso machine). I'd expect it depends on your coffee preference. I haven't ventured into the home espresso side yet, but regularly use pretty much everything else: SCA-approved drip machine, AeroPress, cold brew, french press and pourover. Of those, my favourite results have been pourovers with light roasts (bean-dependent, of course) - isn't a Moka Pot going to give you notably different flavour profiles?
- freilanzer 3y agoI find that the Moka Pot makes insufferably bitter coffee, regardless of the recipe. I have two and I tried everything to make it work, but the result is revolting.
- kozikow 3y agoAll of those variables they described are a contention point in other coffee-making methods like espresso as well. And many of those options are "correct", but depend on your preference - do you like more concentrated coffee? Do you like it less bitter? Do you want more caffeine? Etc.
- erie 3y agoFun fact about getting rid of bitter taste in coffee is a tiny bit of salt, a cracker or anything salty, it basically prevent the tongue from tasting bitterness:"Adding it to coffee can actually cut some of the bitterness. In fact, salting coffee is a tradition that goes back hundreds of years in countries like Turkey, Hungary, and Siberia, and more recently, it has become popular in Vietnam, where coffee is combined with whipped salted cream or milk. " I prefer cold brewing coffee to get rid of bitter taste. On another note, I have recently won a bet with someone who would not believe that the Moka Coffee Named after the Yemeni city of Mocha, with ch similar to German, unpalatalised ch.
- selimthegrim 3y agoIs there any history of molasses in coffee?
- andersrs 3y agoThe exact same process right up to the last step. I don't leave it for 30 seconds I dump the coffee straight into a mug. I believe the bitter tastes come through at the first bubble.
- jfrej 3y agoBased on your technique of pouring straight into the cup, I wonder if that's the reasoning behind the "coffee fountain" kind of moka pots [1] (apart from convenience). This instagram account has a nice collection of different ones [2]. [1] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0e/Coffee_pot_fountain.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0e/Coffee_p... [2] https://www.instagram.com/mymokahome/ https://www.instagram.com/mymokahome/
- chpatrick 3y agoFor me it's cold water up to the valve, coffee up to the brim, no tamping, maximum power on induction stove and I turn it off as soon as it starts gurgling. I know some people say you should put hot water in it so it doesn't cook the coffee as long but on induction it boils in seconds anyway. I used to have the classic aluminium one because I prefer the geometric shape but I switched to stainless steel when I got induction and it seems higher quality in general. I enjoy the ritual personally, it's my favorite way to make coffee.
- chongli 3y agoI know some people say you should put hot water in it so it doesn't cook the coffee as long but on induction it boils in seconds anyway I do the “Moka pot voodoo” technique [1] where you set the base on the stove and get it boiling first, then drop in the basket and screw on the lid, using a towel to protect my hand while holding the hot base. After that it’s a matter of moving the entire thing on and off the heat to carefully regulate the water temperature so that coffee only trickles out with no gushing. It makes wonderful coffee! [1] https://youtu.be/u-PeYeiqPLU https://youtu.be/u-PeYeiqPLU
- chpatrick 3y agoI used to put boiling water in before I had induction but now it's so fast it's not worth the hassle of dealing with the hot pot.
- mplanchard 3y agoI start with hot water from the kettle, which works well too
- Jarmsy 3y agoI recently switched to induction and got an all steel Alessi 9090, where the top clamps on instead of screwing like most moka pots and am loving it. You can put it on quickly with one hand with a satisfying click, always perfectly sealed with no need to judge whether over or under tightening. I think the gasket will last longer too, because it doesn't get stray grounds twisted into it while screwing. The one handed operation also makes it much easier if you do want to preheat or start with hot water in the base.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- BelleOfTheBall 3y ago> Also, what beans and roast profile? Espresso? Crema? Filter? For what it's worth, and I know I'm playing right into the funny part here, every time I talked to people who deal with coffee for a living - roasters, baristas, growers, coffee shop owners - they all said the same thing for this - espresso. They said filter is wasted here as it's intended for a different method entirely, while crema wasn't ever mentioned.
- pdpi 3y ago> There should only be one way, and everyone is sure that their way is the correct one I'm 100% sure the way I do it is correct, and that this is the only correct way to do it: put water in the bottom, coffee grounds in the filter, close the whole thing, put it on the stove top, wait for it to brew. The rest is details, even if we can obviously optimise the shit out of those details.
- eigenket 3y agoMore interestingly the optimum for the rest of the details is probably quite different from person to person. It's unlikely we like exactly the same coffee so even if we optimise very aggressively we'll probably end up at different optima.
- nunez 3y agoWater matters. Grind size matters. Compression matters if you want more bitterness. Temperature matters. But yeah, that's pretty much the method, lol.
- ascagnel_ 3y agoAlso, the timing of the temperature: I've heard of good results if you start heating the water before assembling the unit, so you don't apply as much direct pressure to the grinds.
- thedanbob 3y agoWhen I first started brewing French press, a (somewhat coffee snobbish) friend of mine told me that he brews his French press for exactly 4 minutes and 10 seconds. He insisted the extra 10 seconds are very important. I just go with 4 minutes.
- selectodude 3y agoPatience is a virtue.
- sgc 3y agoCoffee snob + French press is a humorous mix to me. I don't mind using one from time to time, but the poor filtration and rapidly dropping brew temperature are obvious drawbacks, and it is certainly not a fine coffee experience.
- smcl 3y agoWe have the same process but I add a bit more coffee so that there's a little "mound" in the middle, heat it low&slow and after the coffee starts to come out I'll sometimes pour my cup when it's about 3/4 done[0]. But you're right everyone has their own little process, I guess that's the beauty of having something a bit more flexible than "push button, receive nespresso" [0] - The "tails" (to borrow distilling terminology) can be a little bit watery - if you do this and put it back on the hob for a few minutes you'll see that the rest of the coffee is noticeably more translucent.
- jarvist 3y agoA key quality of life improvement for me was to realise that you can eject the grounds from the filter funnel by putting the tube to your lips and blowing gently, ejecting the coffee puck into the food waste / compost bin. The Moka pot then becomes an almost zero-cleanup way of making coffee. You need to do this after the pot has cooled enough that the aluminium won't burn your lips, but soon enough that the coffee grounds haven't continued to swell and wedge themselves in place.
- smcl 3y agoJust make sure you're emptying it into a bin that doesn't smell too badly :D
- trumbitta2 3y agoI just knock twice on the side while keeping it face down, and it drops right into the bin even if it's still hot.
- mplanchard 3y agoI do this too! I press my grinds down a bit with my fingers before brewing, and then at the end I get a nice puck out.
- christkv 3y agoI just drop it directly in the compost pile.
- dguest 3y agoI put the tube under a weak stream of water from the sink, so the water pressure blows them out. Then I send the grounds down the drain.
- jfim 3y agoThis may cause your drains to clog though. Compost or trash can is better from that perspective.
- 3y ago
- derbOac 3y agoI think what you're pointing out is often an indicator of good design. In terms of robustness but also the variation in interaction and use the design facilitates.
- jszymborski 3y ago> Case in point: I fill water up to just touching/under the valve... That's precisely how I do it, and I was taught to do it this way by my mother as a kid, so you know at least two people who do it like you.
- red-iron-pine 3y agosame here, but no mother, just Italian roommates. no higher than the valve, since it may lead to overpressure
- andrewpolidori 3y agoI'm pretty sure that's what the instructions in the box say
- brandonmenc 3y agoIt ain’t rocket science. I put water in. Sometimes I’m below the valve sometimes not. Put pre ground coffee in. Sometimes I fill it all the way. Sometimes I leave a little room. Whatever. Blast it with heat until it’s blowing air. Donezo. I use Lavazza Crema e Gusto. It’s a robusta blend so very forgiving because it’s gonna be a little bit bitter no matter what. I always add some sugar so this isn’t a problem. Also lol at “dialing in” a moka. Give me a break. The reason why I use a moka is because I can get a good coffee without fussing.
- TacticalCoder 3y agoYeah we all have our ways. To me it makes coffee that is too strong (even though I kinda obsess over how I use my moka pot). And I'm lazy, so although I'm a huge coffee drinker and although I appreciate good coffee, I don't bother anymore... I bought a full automated coffee machine. I pour grain in it and coffee comes out. It's way better than Nespresso capsules or "Senseo" etc. Pro tip for for the rich and lazy people who want good coffee: just buy a JURA full auto coffee machine (it's a brand from Switzerland) and call it a day. They're pricey but they do the job very well.
- paulcole 3y ago> There should only be one way Why exactly?
- dougSF70 3y agomittermayr, are you my long lost twin?
- js2 3y agoMy technique is to use an Aeropress. :-) Faster, easier to clean, more variables available to control. Our Bialetti stainless Moka pot hasn't been used in years. BTW, Serious Eats thinks there's no one perfect recipe: https://www.seriouseats.com/best-moka-pots-7570691#toc-what-we-learned https://www.seriouseats.com/best-moka-pots-7570691#toc-what-...
- eweise 3y agoFrom what I've seen in my time in Italy, Italians pour water in, add pre ground beans and heat on the stove. Never seen them worry about the details.
- syslog 3y agoExactly my thoughts. The Bialetti wouldn‘t have been the success it is if you had to make a science out of it.
- jjice 3y agoI was always ad hoc with my Moka pot. Just up to the valve with water and fill the basket with grounds. If I'm using a Moka pot, I'm okay with a range of strong flavor. Since getting an espresso machine, I don't use it very much anymore. These days, I'm mostly using a Technivorm Moccamaster in the morning and a Gaggia Classic Pro for espresso drinks. A v60 is a love of mine as well when I get some new, fresh beans.
- asimovfan 3y agoexactly like you apparently. i have the stainless steel one and dont like that theres teflon in it.
- xinayder 3y agoThis is the thing that pisses me off a bit. You go to Italy, get a coffee from a Moka, it's going to taste dark, very roasted, bitter. Then you have people that try to push their ideal coffee ideas to people saying that Italians don't know how to make coffee. If that's the case, then isn't it an extreme coincidence that the Bialetti was an Italian product??? I've seen tons of videos and comments about making the perfect coffee with a Moka, and most of them (save for James Hoffmann, where he says you should play around and find which parameters will make the coffee good for you), they try to push this stupid idea that "oh, if your coffee is bitter it's trash". Don't they understand that people have different tastes? For example, US coffee is terrible and tastes just like a very watered down coffee. I've grown up drinking dark roasted coffee that have an intense flavor (not as intense as the Portuguese one, as that's literally a very black coffee). Anything not in this range tastes bad to me. I have a Moka at home and the thing that annoyed me a bit when I started brewing my coffee is that it had a reminiscent bitter taste that I definitely don't remember dripped coffee or espresso coffee having it. Since then, I watched James' video and decided to give a try to his techniques and some of them actually helped remove this strong, bitter flavor at the end. Just to make sure people understand, it's not the bitterness of the coffee itself, but it's a bitterness that feels like it's artificial, when you "burn" the coffee in the Moka. Another thing I strongly disagree with so-called coffee connoisseurs is that they say that Bialetti's claim that the Moka shouldn't be cleaned is a myth. This is like saying you shouldn't listen to your car's manufacturer to go to the mechanic every X thousand kilometers, but should rather go earlier, because, sure, a random dude on the internet knows more than the engineer who designed the car. FWIW, Bialetti says you Moka pot shouldn't be cleaned with anything else other than running water, if you need to remove limestone you can use vinegar or another product, but then you have to brew 3 coffees before the Moka is ready for daily use again.
- cellu 3y agoAs Italian I totally confirm and relate :)
- JohnFen 3y ago> There should only be one way Should there? I imagine different people have different characteristics they prefer in their coffee, so different methods of using the pot would be expected and proper.