4 ms·

It's worth to look at the underlying cause for these sentiments gaining popularity and support in recent years. I'm pretty sure to some degree it has to do with

It's worth to look at the underlying cause for these sentiments gaining popularity and support in recent years. I'm pretty sure to some degree it has to do with native European populations being unhappy about illegal immigration and the problems arising from that. And before you call me a racist: mainstream media kept redefining the meaning of the word refugee for a while now. For example: refugees are expected to stop at the nearest safe haven and not traverse multiple countries to end up in the one with the biggest social benefits. Also, tonnes of young men arriving from war-torn regions with disproportionate ratio of women and children. News outlets advertising these groups as doctors and engineers which at this point is a meme. Economical burden, elevated crime rates and social tensions caused by this are quite apparent. Just look at Sweden, France, Germany. UK has it lucky because it's an island and harder to get into. All that while everyone pointing at these topics as unresolved problems getting branded as racist or xenophobe. It's only natural people get angry and start leaning toward populist assholes who promise to "solve" these problems one way or another. The pendulum is starting to sway back and that is not a good thing but also not unexpected the way things were going.

nicbou 3y ago
I understand that refugees are a significant part of the perceived problem, but as an immigrant, I'm on line two of that Niemöller poem and I won't wait and see where Saxon farmers draw the line. I'm not surprised by any of this, but I'm definitely not feeling easy about it.
- pAllain 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - extractionmech 3y ago
    > a new form of what we call colonialism I call this auto-colonialism. Certainly in the West (if not globally since as we know our “owners and masters” just met in Davos) there is clearly a super-layer that went ‘transnational’ and has been extracting wealth from its own people. And speaking of “own people” this is precisely why they do not give a flying F about “cultural heritage” and anything whatsoever that ‘conditions mind’ (such as national myths) that is not under their narrative control. If you study history, you will note that the elite have always used mind control means to lord it over the masses. Our current crop can not even claim ‘noble blood’ or anything remotely like that so their strategy of exploitive rule is to pyschologically confuse (and upset) the subject population. I’ll give you an example. The memes around certain words that were/are directly targeting the sexual vulnerabilities of white(-ish) young men, coupled with pornographic content to reinforce these social and sexual vulnerabilities. I mean, if I wanted to create ultra right wing shock troops, that is what I would do. We’re being played. We’re being fucked with. Because the elite know they can not tell us the full scope of their ‘progressive plans’ for controlling their cattle on Human plantation. So they have us fighing each other. It works. [edit: see sibling comments. The discussion immediately turns into a polarization around secondary effects, such as ‘welfare benefits’, etc. Meanwhile they are laughing their way to the bank. Oh wait, they own the banks ..] p.s. am imigrant myself. Even I am upset at what they are doing to my new Western homeland. After all, I came here precisely for the cultural heritage that the elite decided to destroy over the past 3 decades. Ever since USSR fell... https://unherd.com/thepost/the-davos-consensus-is-finally-cracking/ https://unherd.com/thepost/the-davos-consensus-is-finally-cr...
    - flir 3y ago
      An eeeevil plan to transform virtually every country in the world, for three decades, without a single leak? And all those type A personalities pulling in the same direction? That's incredible!
      - extractionmech 3y ago
        They have been fantasizing and publishing tomes on the topic for decades. Educate yourself. [<- not regarding your spelling in case it is not clear]
        flir 3y ago
        An eeeevil plan with a blog. And the Titanic was an insurance job. Apply just a little critical thinking. Please?
        extractionmech 3y ago
        You are just full of strawmen and not a single coherent sentence. My mind is in perfect working order. Yours looks like it needs a tuneup and an education.
        flir 3y ago
        But not an education from any accredited institution, one would assume. What with them being in the thrall of the eeeevil conspiracy, and all. University of YouTube, maybe? Faculty of Facebook?
  - suslik 3y ago
    > walk into their home, take up residence, and just start living off them and what they and their ancestors created over centuries and millennia, and not only do you not pay anything for it, you even benefit from it even more than they do in their own home Do you actually think immigrants don't need to work or pay for anything and just leech of society?
  - dzhiurgis 3y ago
    IDK what are you on about, but as an multi-immigrant you usually are exploited by landlords for not knowing your rights, paid less, have little money to start your life and spend everything to setup your abode all while also try to send a little money to your family. So no, I reject the premise that I benefit more than locals do. My life was 3x harder to get where I am.
  - i-sam 3y ago
    Being an immigrant is not walking in anyone's home. It's signing a social contract on the terms of the receiving country. You are talking about extraction of value as if the immigrants are paying taxes and adding value to their country of origin which is false. The issue that Europe is having is that the "economy" benefits a few, the metrics are skewed towards the ultra rich and whenever that happens immigrants are accused of being the issue.
  - nicbou 3y ago
    The processes through which immigrants and refugees settle in Germany are enshrined into democratically enacted laws. The refugees did not demand it; Germans with voting rights did. The presence of all immigrants except refugees is contingent on their ability to support themselves. This is a legal requirement and it's verified at every step of the immigration process. I can't just "walk into your home". I've been here 9 years, and I'm still waiting for the immigration office to confirm that yes, I'm still supporting myself (and quite a few German retirees), and that yes, I can live in this country for another few years. From my perspective, I was raised, educated and trained by another country, then moved to Germany in my prime to pay taxes and support the local economy, and if all goes well, I'll retire elsewhere before I'm a strain on the healthcare or pension system. I can't vote, and my presence in this country is directly linked to my ability to pay taxes. But sure, I'm getting all the new benefits.
gambiting 3y ago
>> For example: refugees are expected to stop at the nearest safe haven and not traverse multiple countries to end up in the one with the biggest social benefits. Also, tonnes of young men arriving from war-torn regions with disproportionate ratio of women and children. News outlets advertising these groups as doctors and engineers which at this point is a meme. The thing is, all of the above is just noise. It's not relevant to the problem at large. Even if they were all PhD educated doctors it would still leave the core of the issue to address - there's SO MANY people coming, and more will come in the next decade. All predictions on this point way up - be it do to instability in various regions, war, or things like actual literal depletion of fresh water sources and food, plus temperatures raising to the point where people are dying and crops can't grow in several African and middle eastern regions. Getting into whether these people are men, children, skilled workers or uneducated farmers is pointless - the question is what are we going to do(as European Union) about 1M+ arriving here every year. We are trying to do the humane thing, and it's clearly resulting in a massive increase in populism and nationalism everywhere because the native populations don't like it - again, there is zero point in even getting into whether that's justified or not - the question is, where do we go from here. Because the way I see if, if something isn't done urgently we will end up in a situation where the people in power do what the louder and louder groups say we should - and that's a terrifying vision of the world.
flir 3y ago
> For example: refugees are expected to stop at the nearest safe haven If that were true, countries next to warzones would risk destabilization (moreso than they already do). The system's not set up like that, and never has been.

nicbou 3y ago

I understand that refugees are a significant part of the perceived problem, but as an immigrant, I'm on line two of that Niemöller poem and I won't wait and see where Saxon farmers draw the line. I'm not surprised by any of this, but I'm definitely not feeling easy about it.

pAllain 3y ago
[flagged]
- extractionmech 3y ago
  > a new form of what we call colonialism I call this auto-colonialism. Certainly in the West (if not globally since as we know our “owners and masters” just met in Davos) there is clearly a super-layer that went ‘transnational’ and has been extracting wealth from its own people. And speaking of “own people” this is precisely why they do not give a flying F about “cultural heritage” and anything whatsoever that ‘conditions mind’ (such as national myths) that is not under their narrative control. If you study history, you will note that the elite have always used mind control means to lord it over the masses. Our current crop can not even claim ‘noble blood’ or anything remotely like that so their strategy of exploitive rule is to pyschologically confuse (and upset) the subject population. I’ll give you an example. The memes around certain words that were/are directly targeting the sexual vulnerabilities of white(-ish) young men, coupled with pornographic content to reinforce these social and sexual vulnerabilities. I mean, if I wanted to create ultra right wing shock troops, that is what I would do. We’re being played. We’re being fucked with. Because the elite know they can not tell us the full scope of their ‘progressive plans’ for controlling their cattle on Human plantation. So they have us fighing each other. It works. [edit: see sibling comments. The discussion immediately turns into a polarization around secondary effects, such as ‘welfare benefits’, etc. Meanwhile they are laughing their way to the bank. Oh wait, they own the banks ..] p.s. am imigrant myself. Even I am upset at what they are doing to my new Western homeland. After all, I came here precisely for the cultural heritage that the elite decided to destroy over the past 3 decades. Ever since USSR fell... https://unherd.com/thepost/the-davos-consensus-is-finally-cracking/ https://unherd.com/thepost/the-davos-consensus-is-finally-cr...
  - flir 3y ago
    An eeeevil plan to transform virtually every country in the world, for three decades, without a single leak? And all those type A personalities pulling in the same direction? That's incredible!
    - extractionmech 3y ago
      They have been fantasizing and publishing tomes on the topic for decades. Educate yourself. [<- not regarding your spelling in case it is not clear]
      - flir 3y ago
        An eeeevil plan with a blog. And the Titanic was an insurance job. Apply just a little critical thinking. Please?
        extractionmech 3y ago
        You are just full of strawmen and not a single coherent sentence. My mind is in perfect working order. Yours looks like it needs a tuneup and an education.
        flir 3y ago
        But not an education from any accredited institution, one would assume. What with them being in the thrall of the eeeevil conspiracy, and all. University of YouTube, maybe? Faculty of Facebook?
- suslik 3y ago
  > walk into their home, take up residence, and just start living off them and what they and their ancestors created over centuries and millennia, and not only do you not pay anything for it, you even benefit from it even more than they do in their own home Do you actually think immigrants don't need to work or pay for anything and just leech of society?
- dzhiurgis 3y ago
  IDK what are you on about, but as an multi-immigrant you usually are exploited by landlords for not knowing your rights, paid less, have little money to start your life and spend everything to setup your abode all while also try to send a little money to your family. So no, I reject the premise that I benefit more than locals do. My life was 3x harder to get where I am.
- i-sam 3y ago
  Being an immigrant is not walking in anyone's home. It's signing a social contract on the terms of the receiving country. You are talking about extraction of value as if the immigrants are paying taxes and adding value to their country of origin which is false. The issue that Europe is having is that the "economy" benefits a few, the metrics are skewed towards the ultra rich and whenever that happens immigrants are accused of being the issue.
- nicbou 3y ago
  The processes through which immigrants and refugees settle in Germany are enshrined into democratically enacted laws. The refugees did not demand it; Germans with voting rights did. The presence of all immigrants except refugees is contingent on their ability to support themselves. This is a legal requirement and it's verified at every step of the immigration process. I can't just "walk into your home". I've been here 9 years, and I'm still waiting for the immigration office to confirm that yes, I'm still supporting myself (and quite a few German retirees), and that yes, I can live in this country for another few years. From my perspective, I was raised, educated and trained by another country, then moved to Germany in my prime to pay taxes and support the local economy, and if all goes well, I'll retire elsewhere before I'm a strain on the healthcare or pension system. I can't vote, and my presence in this country is directly linked to my ability to pay taxes. But sure, I'm getting all the new benefits.

gambiting 3y ago

>> For example: refugees are expected to stop at the nearest safe haven and not traverse multiple countries to end up in the one with the biggest social benefits. Also, tonnes of young men arriving from war-torn regions with disproportionate ratio of women and children. News outlets advertising these groups as doctors and engineers which at this point is a meme. The thing is, all of the above is just noise. It's not relevant to the problem at large. Even if they were all PhD educated doctors it would still leave the core of the issue to address - there's SO MANY people coming, and more will come in the next decade. All predictions on this point way up - be it do to instability in various regions, war, or things like actual literal depletion of fresh water sources and food, plus temperatures raising to the point where people are dying and crops can't grow in several African and middle eastern regions. Getting into whether these people are men, children, skilled workers or uneducated farmers is pointless - the question is what are we going to do(as European Union) about 1M+ arriving here every year. We are trying to do the humane thing, and it's clearly resulting in a massive increase in populism and nationalism everywhere because the native populations don't like it - again, there is zero point in even getting into whether that's justified or not - the question is, where do we go from here. Because the way I see if, if something isn't done urgently we will end up in a situation where the people in power do what the louder and louder groups say we should - and that's a terrifying vision of the world.

flir 3y ago

> For example: refugees are expected to stop at the nearest safe haven If that were true, countries next to warzones would risk destabilization (moreso than they already do). The system's not set up like that, and never has been.