4 ms·

It's everywhere, not just in Germany. Like you said, there's "something in the air". The rise of populism, rebirth of strong nationalism, is everywhere in Europ

It's everywhere, not just in Germany. Like you said, there's "something in the air". The rise of populism, rebirth of strong nationalism, is everywhere in Europe. I feel like wherever that tide is pushed back, it grows stronger in the background anyway. And the worst thing is, I don't really see how this could get better. Economic problems will continue to grow for at least several years, and one of the most contenious problems - immigration, legal or otherwise - is not going to slow down, fueled by conflicts around the globe and climate change pushing people out of previously habitable areas.

nicbou 3y ago
It definitely seems to be a worldwide phenomenon. You forgot that immigration is also fueled by the receiving side, who won't admit their dependence on cheap labour that pays taxes without needing to be raised and cared for.
lgrebe 3y ago
That something might just be the urgency of change in things we’ve taken for grander the past ~2 generations (~60years) Right at the top of that list: - using fossil fuels as cheap energy - assuming continued growth while earths resources are limited (yes tech is getting more efficient) - relying on respected and trusted media entities (opposed to outlets bought by corporations with clear interests or maybe(?) state controlled social media trolls Change is happening, coming fast and is becoming harder to ignore but people don’t like change.
bitcharmer 3y ago
It's worth to look at the underlying cause for these sentiments gaining popularity and support in recent years. I'm pretty sure to some degree it has to do with native European populations being unhappy about illegal immigration and the problems arising from that. And before you call me a racist: mainstream media kept redefining the meaning of the word refugee for a while now. For example: refugees are expected to stop at the nearest safe haven and not traverse multiple countries to end up in the one with the biggest social benefits. Also, tonnes of young men arriving from war-torn regions with disproportionate ratio of women and children. News outlets advertising these groups as doctors and engineers which at this point is a meme. Economical burden, elevated crime rates and social tensions caused by this are quite apparent. Just look at Sweden, France, Germany. UK has it lucky because it's an island and harder to get into. All that while everyone pointing at these topics as unresolved problems getting branded as racist or xenophobe. It's only natural people get angry and start leaning toward populist assholes who promise to "solve" these problems one way or another. The pendulum is starting to sway back and that is not a good thing but also not unexpected the way things were going.
- nicbou 3y ago
  I understand that refugees are a significant part of the perceived problem, but as an immigrant, I'm on line two of that Niemöller poem and I won't wait and see where Saxon farmers draw the line. I'm not surprised by any of this, but I'm definitely not feeling easy about it.
  - pAllain 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - extractionmech 3y ago
      > a new form of what we call colonialism I call this auto-colonialism. Certainly in the West (if not globally since as we know our “owners and masters” just met in Davos) there is clearly a super-layer that went ‘transnational’ and has been extracting wealth from its own people. And speaking of “own people” this is precisely why they do not give a flying F about “cultural heritage” and anything whatsoever that ‘conditions mind’ (such as national myths) that is not under their narrative control. If you study history, you will note that the elite have always used mind control means to lord it over the masses. Our current crop can not even claim ‘noble blood’ or anything remotely like that so their strategy of exploitive rule is to pyschologically confuse (and upset) the subject population. I’ll give you an example. The memes around certain words that were/are directly targeting the sexual vulnerabilities of white(-ish) young men, coupled with pornographic content to reinforce these social and sexual vulnerabilities. I mean, if I wanted to create ultra right wing shock troops, that is what I would do. We’re being played. We’re being fucked with. Because the elite know they can not tell us the full scope of their ‘progressive plans’ for controlling their cattle on Human plantation. So they have us fighing each other. It works. [edit: see sibling comments. The discussion immediately turns into a polarization around secondary effects, such as ‘welfare benefits’, etc. Meanwhile they are laughing their way to the bank. Oh wait, they own the banks ..] p.s. am imigrant myself. Even I am upset at what they are doing to my new Western homeland. After all, I came here precisely for the cultural heritage that the elite decided to destroy over the past 3 decades. Ever since USSR fell... https://unherd.com/thepost/the-davos-consensus-is-finally-cracking/ https://unherd.com/thepost/the-davos-consensus-is-finally-cr...
knallfrosch 3y ago
I think migration is mostly driven by technological changes. Tens of thousands simply fly to Middle America and trek to the US border. That (tens of thousands affording a plane ticket) wouldn't have been possible in the 90s's. Regardless of whether it's climate change, population growth or growing riches though, it's going to get more intensive in the future.
- gambiting 3y ago
  >>I think migration is mostly driven by technological changes. Tens of thousands simply fly to Middle America and trek to the US border. While you aren't wrong, I don't see how that's relevant when talking about immigration into Europe from Africa and Middle East - those migrants arrive either on foot or on crappy boats, at best they manage to catch a train or get trafficked inside a van. They aren't flying in.
  - nicbou 3y ago
    Not all ME immigrants are refugees. For most people, immigration means meeting a list of requirements and months of paperwork. The process is much harder for ME nationals than for people from favored nations.
suslik 3y ago
I feel like it's not pushed back, it's swiped under the rug. Is it surprising that the bulldog climbs from under the rug on the other side eventually?
piva00 3y ago
Fascism is a product of capitalism's crisis. It's the final breath of capitalism when the system is not working for the masses, it's counter revolutionary, it's a doubling down of the status quo into a more violent form. Wages stagnated, inflation is eating up the last pennies of a more impoverished worker class, populism will always rise up from these conditions, and right wing populism will eventually lead to fascism.
- sinuhe69 3y ago
  Fascism and Communism. Two sides of the same coin. In fact, they are so similar even in their base, they ended up as mortal enemy of each other.
  - piva00 3y ago
    Can you expand on this point? It seems you are equating them just by virtue of authoritarianism, to me that's just one trait they share (and from which only Fascism has it necessarily in any instance it happens). I'd like to know what else you consider them to be so similar at to call "two sides of the same coin".
    - cloverich 3y ago
      Authoritarianism is commonly discussed as the foundation of each, without which neither can exist. i.e. they are each offshoots stemming from authoritarianism, and cannot exist without it.
      - sinuhe69 3y ago
        Not only both of them are based on totalitarianism, they are totalitarian systems based on ideology.
    - sinuhe69 3y ago
      Yes, not only both of them are based on totalitarianism, they are also totalitarian systems based on ideology. But there is more. Both began as support for the working class after World War I (in Germany). In fact, both the Communist Party and the Nazi movement fought for their influence on the workers and other disgruntled groups. They also used very similar methods like organizing strikes, providing support and shelter to the workers, using propaganda as the main method of communication, playing the nationalism card, nationalizing companies and seizing private assets for planned productions etc. Also their militaristic aggression as a means of expansion of their ideologies bears many similarities: Soviet in Afghanistan, Vietnam in Cambodia, China in Korea and beyond, etc... Even in terms of the will to genocide/mass kill the "enemies", they are not far from each other: Nazis and the concentration camps, Khmer Rouge and their killing fields, China and the Uighur prison camp/Cultural Revolution, Soviet Union and the Holodomor famine in Ukraine etc... With enough power, both communism and fascism will tend to extremism and will not shy away from military aggression to spread their ideologies.
rswskg 3y ago
Then you will never understand these people.
- gambiting 3y ago
  Which people? In my comment I'm talking about like 4 distinct groups of people, which one you mean, exactly?
sebazzz 3y ago
Read the Fourth Turning, I truly wonder if this is the “there is something in the air” thing. > The Strauss–Howe generational theory, devised by William Strauss and Neil Howe, describes a theorized recurring generation cycle in American history and Western history. According to the theory, historical events are associated with recurring generational personas (archetypes). Each generational persona unleashes a new era (called a turning) lasting around 20–25 years, in which a new social, political, and economic climate (mood) exists. They are part of a larger cyclical "saeculum" (a long human life, which usually spans between 80 and 100 years, although some saecula have lasted longer). The theory states that a crisis recurs in American history after every saeculum, which is followed by a recovery (high). During this recovery, institutions and communitarian values are strong. Ultimately, succeeding generational archetypes attack and weaken institutions in the name of autonomy and individualism, which eventually creates a tumultuous political environment that ripens conditions for another crisis. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strauss%E2%80%93Howe_generational_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strauss%E2%80%93Howe_generatio...

nicbou 3y ago

It definitely seems to be a worldwide phenomenon. You forgot that immigration is also fueled by the receiving side, who won't admit their dependence on cheap labour that pays taxes without needing to be raised and cared for.

lgrebe 3y ago

That something might just be the urgency of change in things we’ve taken for grander the past ~2 generations (~60years) Right at the top of that list: - using fossil fuels as cheap energy - assuming continued growth while earths resources are limited (yes tech is getting more efficient) - relying on respected and trusted media entities (opposed to outlets bought by corporations with clear interests or maybe(?) state controlled social media trolls Change is happening, coming fast and is becoming harder to ignore but people don’t like change.

bitcharmer 3y ago

It's worth to look at the underlying cause for these sentiments gaining popularity and support in recent years. I'm pretty sure to some degree it has to do with native European populations being unhappy about illegal immigration and the problems arising from that. And before you call me a racist: mainstream media kept redefining the meaning of the word refugee for a while now. For example: refugees are expected to stop at the nearest safe haven and not traverse multiple countries to end up in the one with the biggest social benefits. Also, tonnes of young men arriving from war-torn regions with disproportionate ratio of women and children. News outlets advertising these groups as doctors and engineers which at this point is a meme. Economical burden, elevated crime rates and social tensions caused by this are quite apparent. Just look at Sweden, France, Germany. UK has it lucky because it's an island and harder to get into. All that while everyone pointing at these topics as unresolved problems getting branded as racist or xenophobe. It's only natural people get angry and start leaning toward populist assholes who promise to "solve" these problems one way or another. The pendulum is starting to sway back and that is not a good thing but also not unexpected the way things were going.

nicbou 3y ago
I understand that refugees are a significant part of the perceived problem, but as an immigrant, I'm on line two of that Niemöller poem and I won't wait and see where Saxon farmers draw the line. I'm not surprised by any of this, but I'm definitely not feeling easy about it.
- pAllain 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - extractionmech 3y ago
    > a new form of what we call colonialism I call this auto-colonialism. Certainly in the West (if not globally since as we know our “owners and masters” just met in Davos) there is clearly a super-layer that went ‘transnational’ and has been extracting wealth from its own people. And speaking of “own people” this is precisely why they do not give a flying F about “cultural heritage” and anything whatsoever that ‘conditions mind’ (such as national myths) that is not under their narrative control. If you study history, you will note that the elite have always used mind control means to lord it over the masses. Our current crop can not even claim ‘noble blood’ or anything remotely like that so their strategy of exploitive rule is to pyschologically confuse (and upset) the subject population. I’ll give you an example. The memes around certain words that were/are directly targeting the sexual vulnerabilities of white(-ish) young men, coupled with pornographic content to reinforce these social and sexual vulnerabilities. I mean, if I wanted to create ultra right wing shock troops, that is what I would do. We’re being played. We’re being fucked with. Because the elite know they can not tell us the full scope of their ‘progressive plans’ for controlling their cattle on Human plantation. So they have us fighing each other. It works. [edit: see sibling comments. The discussion immediately turns into a polarization around secondary effects, such as ‘welfare benefits’, etc. Meanwhile they are laughing their way to the bank. Oh wait, they own the banks ..] p.s. am imigrant myself. Even I am upset at what they are doing to my new Western homeland. After all, I came here precisely for the cultural heritage that the elite decided to destroy over the past 3 decades. Ever since USSR fell... https://unherd.com/thepost/the-davos-consensus-is-finally-cracking/ https://unherd.com/thepost/the-davos-consensus-is-finally-cr...

knallfrosch 3y ago

I think migration is mostly driven by technological changes. Tens of thousands simply fly to Middle America and trek to the US border. That (tens of thousands affording a plane ticket) wouldn't have been possible in the 90s's. Regardless of whether it's climate change, population growth or growing riches though, it's going to get more intensive in the future.

gambiting 3y ago
>>I think migration is mostly driven by technological changes. Tens of thousands simply fly to Middle America and trek to the US border. While you aren't wrong, I don't see how that's relevant when talking about immigration into Europe from Africa and Middle East - those migrants arrive either on foot or on crappy boats, at best they manage to catch a train or get trafficked inside a van. They aren't flying in.
- nicbou 3y ago
  Not all ME immigrants are refugees. For most people, immigration means meeting a list of requirements and months of paperwork. The process is much harder for ME nationals than for people from favored nations.

suslik 3y ago

I feel like it's not pushed back, it's swiped under the rug. Is it surprising that the bulldog climbs from under the rug on the other side eventually?

piva00 3y ago

Fascism is a product of capitalism's crisis. It's the final breath of capitalism when the system is not working for the masses, it's counter revolutionary, it's a doubling down of the status quo into a more violent form. Wages stagnated, inflation is eating up the last pennies of a more impoverished worker class, populism will always rise up from these conditions, and right wing populism will eventually lead to fascism.

sinuhe69 3y ago
Fascism and Communism. Two sides of the same coin. In fact, they are so similar even in their base, they ended up as mortal enemy of each other.
- piva00 3y ago
  Can you expand on this point? It seems you are equating them just by virtue of authoritarianism, to me that's just one trait they share (and from which only Fascism has it necessarily in any instance it happens). I'd like to know what else you consider them to be so similar at to call "two sides of the same coin".
  - cloverich 3y ago
    Authoritarianism is commonly discussed as the foundation of each, without which neither can exist. i.e. they are each offshoots stemming from authoritarianism, and cannot exist without it.
    - sinuhe69 3y ago
      Not only both of them are based on totalitarianism, they are totalitarian systems based on ideology.
  - sinuhe69 3y ago
    Yes, not only both of them are based on totalitarianism, they are also totalitarian systems based on ideology. But there is more. Both began as support for the working class after World War I (in Germany). In fact, both the Communist Party and the Nazi movement fought for their influence on the workers and other disgruntled groups. They also used very similar methods like organizing strikes, providing support and shelter to the workers, using propaganda as the main method of communication, playing the nationalism card, nationalizing companies and seizing private assets for planned productions etc. Also their militaristic aggression as a means of expansion of their ideologies bears many similarities: Soviet in Afghanistan, Vietnam in Cambodia, China in Korea and beyond, etc... Even in terms of the will to genocide/mass kill the "enemies", they are not far from each other: Nazis and the concentration camps, Khmer Rouge and their killing fields, China and the Uighur prison camp/Cultural Revolution, Soviet Union and the Holodomor famine in Ukraine etc... With enough power, both communism and fascism will tend to extremism and will not shy away from military aggression to spread their ideologies.

rswskg 3y ago

Then you will never understand these people.

gambiting 3y ago
Which people? In my comment I'm talking about like 4 distinct groups of people, which one you mean, exactly?

sebazzz 3y ago

Read the Fourth Turning, I truly wonder if this is the “there is something in the air” thing. > The Strauss–Howe generational theory, devised by William Strauss and Neil Howe, describes a theorized recurring generation cycle in American history and Western history. According to the theory, historical events are associated with recurring generational personas (archetypes). Each generational persona unleashes a new era (called a turning) lasting around 20–25 years, in which a new social, political, and economic climate (mood) exists. They are part of a larger cyclical "saeculum" (a long human life, which usually spans between 80 and 100 years, although some saecula have lasted longer). The theory states that a crisis recurs in American history after every saeculum, which is followed by a recovery (high). During this recovery, institutions and communitarian values are strong. Ultimately, succeeding generational archetypes attack and weaken institutions in the name of autonomy and individualism, which eventually creates a tumultuous political environment that ripens conditions for another crisis. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strauss%E2%80%93Howe_generational_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strauss%E2%80%93Howe_generatio...