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I think this advice is way too risk averse, in most situations. Can employers rescind your offer for negotiating? Of course. Anything can happen in any situatio

I think this advice is way too risk averse, in most situations. Can employers rescind your offer for negotiating? Of course. Anything can happen in any situation. But that doesn't mean we should walk on egg shells because something bad could happen. Maybe you should also never speak up when you see something suboptimal going on, because it's possible your manager could fire you on the spot out of anger. If a person is in a truly precarious position, then sure, that's maybe a time to minimize risks that low frequency + high impact. But that's not advice about negotiation, that's advice about risk management, where negotiation is just an example. The second half of this article concerns bad negotiating practices, and that advice I agree with. And then I can also get down with the general perspective that best practices we are used to from the "long 2010s" should be given a critical eye. Maybe we'll get back to that environment, but right now, we're in a significantly different world.

datadrivenangel 3y ago
And if a company has extended an offer to work with them, the company rescinding that offer over you asking for ~10% more would be honestly doing you a favor by signalling what a bad company they are.
- acjohnson55 3y ago
  That's my was the first thought to cross my mind. As I was composing my post though, I tried to keep in mind that there are people in a position to need to take crappy jobs with crappy companies, and that's part of who this piece is addressing. I just think that "don't negotiate" is the wrong framing, even if in some situations, it could possibly be the right move.
rickydroll 3y ago
oh yes they can rescind an offer. Before I settled into self-employment, I received an offer from a company I wanted to work for (space weather business). The hiring team really liked my experience in the domain, and we both thought it was a good cultural match. They gave me a verbal offer. This is when I asked for accommodation for a repetitive strain injury. (Acoustically isolated place where I could use speech recognition without interfering with others. Within 48 hours, the offer was rescinded by HR. The recruiter was dumbfounded, the hiring manager was apologetic, and I was disappointed and pissed. At this point, I decided to fully commit to self-employment because it was clearly the only way I could work and give myself an environment that didn't increase the damage to my arms. my practice has grown enough that it looks like I'll be hiring people in the next year or so, and my experience has taught me how to accommodate different needs and different styles of working. I'm going to try really hard to not be an asshole company even though it looks like my UK contractor is going away thanks the tax code change.
- acjohnson55 3y ago
  Absolutely, they can. But I'm curious whether the lesson to you was "I should not have advocated for myself"? And by the way, I'm sorry you had that experience.
  - rickydroll 3y ago
    My lessons were 1) reinforcement of HR is actively harmful to your career, 2) no matter what the law says, companies will discriminate based on everything the law says they should not, 3) if you are wrong ability, gender, age, you are better off being self-employed.

datadrivenangel 3y ago

And if a company has extended an offer to work with them, the company rescinding that offer over you asking for ~10% more would be honestly doing you a favor by signalling what a bad company they are.

acjohnson55 3y ago
That's my was the first thought to cross my mind. As I was composing my post though, I tried to keep in mind that there are people in a position to need to take crappy jobs with crappy companies, and that's part of who this piece is addressing. I just think that "don't negotiate" is the wrong framing, even if in some situations, it could possibly be the right move.

rickydroll 3y ago

oh yes they can rescind an offer. Before I settled into self-employment, I received an offer from a company I wanted to work for (space weather business). The hiring team really liked my experience in the domain, and we both thought it was a good cultural match. They gave me a verbal offer. This is when I asked for accommodation for a repetitive strain injury. (Acoustically isolated place where I could use speech recognition without interfering with others. Within 48 hours, the offer was rescinded by HR. The recruiter was dumbfounded, the hiring manager was apologetic, and I was disappointed and pissed. At this point, I decided to fully commit to self-employment because it was clearly the only way I could work and give myself an environment that didn't increase the damage to my arms. my practice has grown enough that it looks like I'll be hiring people in the next year or so, and my experience has taught me how to accommodate different needs and different styles of working. I'm going to try really hard to not be an asshole company even though it looks like my UK contractor is going away thanks the tax code change.

acjohnson55 3y ago
Absolutely, they can. But I'm curious whether the lesson to you was "I should not have advocated for myself"? And by the way, I'm sorry you had that experience.
- rickydroll 3y ago
  My lessons were 1) reinforcement of HR is actively harmful to your career, 2) no matter what the law says, companies will discriminate based on everything the law says they should not, 3) if you are wrong ability, gender, age, you are better off being self-employed.