5 ms·

"even though IPv6 is such well established tech" It's actually not, and I think you learned that, and why it's not, in this process. Sorry.

by krupan 3y ago

newsclues 3y ago
Introduction December 1995; 28 years ago IPv4 is 43 years old
- kragen 3y ago
  in december 01995 zero nsps and zero isps supported ipv6. you had to be on the 6bone, which didn't even exist until march 01996. also you probably had to write your own protocol stack because there wasn't an off-the-shelf one for your platform. in december 01995 what you had was a paper spec
- o11c 3y ago
  June 6, 2012 is a better date; that was the "World IPv6 Launch Day". But even that was negligible since nobody actually had IPv6 connectivity. Even now I still don't have a home wifi router that supports it, though at least my ISP does since last year. The real driver of IPv6 was the rise of smartphones.
  - apearson 3y ago
    What router do you use that doesn't support IPv6?
    - o11c 3y ago
      It's a tp-link Archer, and since it supports Wi-Fi 6 it must have been from 2019 or later. Hmm, I just went deep into the settings and there's an IPv6 toggle (disabled by default, and requires playing with menus to make it actually work) now. I don't remember seeing that (and I explicitly checked) when we switched the ISP-side last April. But the firmware is dated after that, so I choose to trust my memory. Actually trying to connect to ipv6 stuff besides the router itself (in fd00::/8, that's good) just gives "Destination unreachable: Beyond scope of source address" though (probably because I only have an fe80 link-local address though?). If I play with the settings some more I get a ::/64 address, but that just gives me a black hole ... wait, is that even a legitimate address? Do I need to fill in the prefix manually or something? I'll play with this some more in the morning I guess. But I certainly wouldn't expect a normal user to get IPv6 working under these circumstances if I haven't figured it out yet ...
      - apearson 3y ago
        You're trying too hard Turn IPv6 with stateless RDNSS on (should be the default on all modern routers) ping6 google.com That's it as long as your ISP supports IPv6. No need to figure out a fd00::/8 that you maybe may not have.
        o11c 3y ago
        That doesn't work any more than anything else. I'm testing with `ping ipv6.google.com` as well as the router IPs. Between each change, I disconnect from wifi. The router itself has a ping tool and can ping ipv6.google.com just fine. So I assume the upstream options are correct. For the LAN, I have 4 options: * ND Proxy gives me an fd/8 address. I can ping the router via its fd/8 or fe80 address, google blackholes. * DHCPv6 gives me an ::/64 address. I can ping the router via its fd/8 or ::/64 addresses, google blackholes * SLAAC + Stateless DHCP does not give me any address (I still have the default fe80 address). I can ping the router via its fd/8 or ::/64 addresses, google gives Destination unreachable: Beyond scope of source address * SLAAC + RDNSS does not give me any address (I still have the default fe80 address). I can ping the router via its fd/8 or ::/64 addresses, google gives Destination unreachable: Beyond scope of source address In all cases, the IPv6 addresses the router says are its DNS servers blackhole. I do have working DNS returning IPv6 address for google though; presumably because the ipv4 DNS server it advertises (which is the router itself) still works. If I bypass the wifi router, the ISP router gives me both an address in both fd/8 (in the same /64 as the wifi router gets assigned, which makes sense) and in 2607/16, besides the usual fe80. The ISP router is really bad, all it has is an "it's connected" indicator and a bunch of phone numbers and URLs for support. Still bypassing, pinging `ip6-allnodes` gives me 3 responses, all with fe80::/64 addresses: my computer, an unknown, and the wifi router; I can ping those addresses, as well as the wifi router's fd/8 address. Maybe I should play with the router's upstream settings ... "Get IPv6 address" has auto, slaac, dhcpv6, non-address ... since I can ping it from outside that has to be right. If I disable "Prefix delegation" the ::/64 box is editable but it complains about literally anything entered. And I don't have anything meaningful to manually enter a DNS address. Hm, I just noticed that the last bit of the router's address varies between some of its addresses ...
  - Semaphor 3y ago
    My router supports it, but for my ISP asking for ipv6 risks getting put into a CGNAT for v4, so I choose to live without v6.
  - ben_w 3y ago
    > June 6, 2012 is a better date; that was the "World IPv6 Launch Day". 2012? Wow, that's pretty bad. We were talking about how ridiculously slow IPv6 rollout was while I was at university, and that was 2002-06.
- magicalhippo 3y ago
  And? IPv6 is still under rather heavy development with significant changes still being made. As a user, I wouldn't call it well established because it's shifting too much still.
  - voltagex_ 3y ago
    I have had IPv6 on every ISP I have been on since at least 2012 (http://web.archive.org/web/20120217204742/https://www.internode.on.net/about/our_network/ipv6/ http://web.archive.org/web/20120217204742/https://www.intern...) It's fine. The only breakages I've had are when the ISP's v4 DHCP goes down (v6 websites keep working) or when IPv6 delegation fails somehow and my machines lose v6 (v6 only stuff breaks). Your mobile phone probably already uses IPv6 (especially if you use VoLTE) and it's fine, too.
- jodrellblank 3y ago
  > "IPv4 is 43 years old" As a fun aside, global smartphone sales in 2021 were 1.4Bn units. That alone is enough internet devices to exhaust the entire IPv4 address space every three years. I wonder if anyone was imagining that 43 years ago. https://www.gartner.com/en/newsroom/press-releases/2022-03-01-4q21-smartphone-market-share https://www.gartner.com/en/newsroom/press-releases/2022-03-0...
Throw84949 3y ago
I disable ipv6 on my network, way too many security exploits!
- sgjohnson 3y ago
  Such as?
  - Throw84949 3y ago
    I don't have vulnerability ids. What made me disable it was some issue in Linux network stack, with ipv6 broadcast, on by default, exploitable to root execution. For me it is yet another complex service that I do not need, and that should not be exposed to network. Ipv4 network stack code is far smaller, simpler and way more tested over decades!
  - msm_ 3y ago
    Firewall misconfigurations, mostly. It's way harder to keep firewall up to date when you have to worry about two independent stacks.

"even though IPv6 is such well established tech" It's actually not, and I think you learned that, and why it's not, in this process. Sorry.

by krupan 3y ago

"even though IPv6 is such well established tech" It's actually not, and I think you learned that, and why it's not, in this process. Sorry.

newsclues 3y ago

Introduction December 1995; 28 years ago IPv4 is 43 years old

kragen 3y ago
in december 01995 zero nsps and zero isps supported ipv6. you had to be on the 6bone, which didn't even exist until march 01996. also you probably had to write your own protocol stack because there wasn't an off-the-shelf one for your platform. in december 01995 what you had was a paper spec
o11c 3y ago
June 6, 2012 is a better date; that was the "World IPv6 Launch Day". But even that was negligible since nobody actually had IPv6 connectivity. Even now I still don't have a home wifi router that supports it, though at least my ISP does since last year. The real driver of IPv6 was the rise of smartphones.
- apearson 3y ago
  What router do you use that doesn't support IPv6?
  - o11c 3y ago
    It's a tp-link Archer, and since it supports Wi-Fi 6 it must have been from 2019 or later. Hmm, I just went deep into the settings and there's an IPv6 toggle (disabled by default, and requires playing with menus to make it actually work) now. I don't remember seeing that (and I explicitly checked) when we switched the ISP-side last April. But the firmware is dated after that, so I choose to trust my memory. Actually trying to connect to ipv6 stuff besides the router itself (in fd00::/8, that's good) just gives "Destination unreachable: Beyond scope of source address" though (probably because I only have an fe80 link-local address though?). If I play with the settings some more I get a ::/64 address, but that just gives me a black hole ... wait, is that even a legitimate address? Do I need to fill in the prefix manually or something? I'll play with this some more in the morning I guess. But I certainly wouldn't expect a normal user to get IPv6 working under these circumstances if I haven't figured it out yet ...
    - apearson 3y ago
      You're trying too hard Turn IPv6 with stateless RDNSS on (should be the default on all modern routers) ping6 google.com That's it as long as your ISP supports IPv6. No need to figure out a fd00::/8 that you maybe may not have.
      - o11c 3y ago
        That doesn't work any more than anything else. I'm testing with `ping ipv6.google.com` as well as the router IPs. Between each change, I disconnect from wifi. The router itself has a ping tool and can ping ipv6.google.com just fine. So I assume the upstream options are correct. For the LAN, I have 4 options: * ND Proxy gives me an fd/8 address. I can ping the router via its fd/8 or fe80 address, google blackholes. * DHCPv6 gives me an ::/64 address. I can ping the router via its fd/8 or ::/64 addresses, google blackholes * SLAAC + Stateless DHCP does not give me any address (I still have the default fe80 address). I can ping the router via its fd/8 or ::/64 addresses, google gives Destination unreachable: Beyond scope of source address * SLAAC + RDNSS does not give me any address (I still have the default fe80 address). I can ping the router via its fd/8 or ::/64 addresses, google gives Destination unreachable: Beyond scope of source address In all cases, the IPv6 addresses the router says are its DNS servers blackhole. I do have working DNS returning IPv6 address for google though; presumably because the ipv4 DNS server it advertises (which is the router itself) still works. If I bypass the wifi router, the ISP router gives me both an address in both fd/8 (in the same /64 as the wifi router gets assigned, which makes sense) and in 2607/16, besides the usual fe80. The ISP router is really bad, all it has is an "it's connected" indicator and a bunch of phone numbers and URLs for support. Still bypassing, pinging `ip6-allnodes` gives me 3 responses, all with fe80::/64 addresses: my computer, an unknown, and the wifi router; I can ping those addresses, as well as the wifi router's fd/8 address. Maybe I should play with the router's upstream settings ... "Get IPv6 address" has auto, slaac, dhcpv6, non-address ... since I can ping it from outside that has to be right. If I disable "Prefix delegation" the ::/64 box is editable but it complains about literally anything entered. And I don't have anything meaningful to manually enter a DNS address. Hm, I just noticed that the last bit of the router's address varies between some of its addresses ...
- Semaphor 3y ago
  My router supports it, but for my ISP asking for ipv6 risks getting put into a CGNAT for v4, so I choose to live without v6.
- ben_w 3y ago
  > June 6, 2012 is a better date; that was the "World IPv6 Launch Day". 2012? Wow, that's pretty bad. We were talking about how ridiculously slow IPv6 rollout was while I was at university, and that was 2002-06.
magicalhippo 3y ago
And? IPv6 is still under rather heavy development with significant changes still being made. As a user, I wouldn't call it well established because it's shifting too much still.
- voltagex_ 3y ago
  I have had IPv6 on every ISP I have been on since at least 2012 (http://web.archive.org/web/20120217204742/https://www.internode.on.net/about/our_network/ipv6/ http://web.archive.org/web/20120217204742/https://www.intern...) It's fine. The only breakages I've had are when the ISP's v4 DHCP goes down (v6 websites keep working) or when IPv6 delegation fails somehow and my machines lose v6 (v6 only stuff breaks). Your mobile phone probably already uses IPv6 (especially if you use VoLTE) and it's fine, too.
jodrellblank 3y ago
> "IPv4 is 43 years old" As a fun aside, global smartphone sales in 2021 were 1.4Bn units. That alone is enough internet devices to exhaust the entire IPv4 address space every three years. I wonder if anyone was imagining that 43 years ago. https://www.gartner.com/en/newsroom/press-releases/2022-03-01-4q21-smartphone-market-share https://www.gartner.com/en/newsroom/press-releases/2022-03-0...

Throw84949 3y ago

I disable ipv6 on my network, way too many security exploits!

sgjohnson 3y ago
Such as?
- Throw84949 3y ago
  I don't have vulnerability ids. What made me disable it was some issue in Linux network stack, with ipv6 broadcast, on by default, exploitable to root execution. For me it is yet another complex service that I do not need, and that should not be exposed to network. Ipv4 network stack code is far smaller, simpler and way more tested over decades!
- msm_ 3y ago
  Firewall misconfigurations, mostly. It's way harder to keep firewall up to date when you have to worry about two independent stacks.