5 ms·

Intuit is an embarrassment of a tech company. Instead of innovating in software, they've invested infinitely more in lobbying to keep tax-filing complex and in

Intuit is an embarrassment of a tech company. Instead of innovating in software, they've invested infinitely more in lobbying to keep tax-filing complex and in creating new and innovative dark patterns to obscure their (federally mandated, btw) free product.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
They are not a tech company. They are a regulatory capture company that uses tech to extract from the general public what should be free. The code and platform are the performance art to enable the rake. Edit: Meant to scope this comment solely to TurboTax. Replies correcting me are well deserved.
- pcurve 3y ago
  I think most people would be shocked to learn how big intuit is in terms of market cap. Bigger than Verizon wellsfargo ibm nike
  - rootusrootus 3y ago
    From comments in threads like this I think most people would be shocked that Intuit makes the largest segment of their income from business customers, not individual consumers.
    - foolswisdom 3y ago
      Is this true for turbotax specifically, or merely for intuit as a whole (which includes things like quickbooks)?
      - pcurve 3y ago
        The “business customer” is a slight misnomer because Intuits definition of this segment includes “Small Business and Self Employed”. Quickbooks accounts for thr largest share For consumer segment TurboTax still drives 30% of their entire revenue.
  - jjulius 3y ago
    For those unaware, Intuit owns... TurboTax Mint QuickBooks Credit Karma MailChimp
    - s1mon 3y ago
      They do own Mint, but they are killing it and trying to get customers to switch to Credit Karma. Intuit bought Mint but never really put much development effort into it beyond the bare minimum. Like too many financial tracking things which are "free", the user was the product on Mint that its advertisers wanted. I switched to Monarch which is paid and has some people from the original Mint team behind it.
    - smartbit 3y ago
      and GitOps tool ArgoCD
- WesternWind 3y ago
  No, they are a tech company, they produce software for their main product. Like a lot of companies, tech and not, they use their power and resources to keep their position. The difference is that their actual competitor is the government. But that's also a big part of why private healthcare is way too expensive in the US, for worse results than other places.
  - colordrops 3y ago
    It's a game of semantics. The other commenter's meaning is that a "tech company" would produce valuable tech that wouldn't otherwise exist. Intuit uses tech to do the opposite. McDonalds uses tech too, but they aren't a tech company.
    - ang_cire 3y ago
      McDonald's main product is not a piece of software. Intuit's is.
      - colordrops 3y ago
        That's what I'm saying though, they don't even produce a product. They produce legislative influence to create a money collecting trap. Turboxtax isn't a "product" per se. That's like calling the mafia security guards because they force you to pay protection money. Many countries don't even require filling out tax forms. You just sign and pay.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
  - raegis 3y ago
    > The difference is that their actual competitor is the government. I think the government is more of an enabler, than a competitor. At least up until now.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
MathMonkeyMan 3y ago
Free government-provided tax calculators and online filing are an existential threat to Intuit. I think that the business should not exist (or should be scaled down to a fraction of its size, as an accountant's tool), but can you blame them for trying to block the deathblow?
- quantified 3y ago
  Sure. How much don't you blame the rat whose claws are embedded in your hand as you try to throw it in the river?
  - MathMonkeyMan 3y ago
    As a New Yorker, I wouldn't dare try, but I see your point.
  - rightbyte 3y ago
    I am quite sure it could swim so I would think it was ungrateful for me being so kind to it.
slg 3y ago
>they've invested infinitely more in lobbying to keep tax-filing complex I always feel the need to point out that anger at this is misplaced. Intuit is a business lobbying on behalf of itself like countless other businesses do. If the result makes you upset, you should be upset at our political system and the politicians who are willing to sell out the country for whatever those lobbyists are pushing. It is those politicians who are supposed to prioritize the good of the country, not Intuit or their lobbyists.
- jjulius 3y ago
  We can be upset at politicians for "selling out" to the lobbyists. We can be upset at lobbyists for pushing things that they know aren't in the best interests of consumers. We can be upset at businesses for wanting to take advantage of consumers for their own gain. All of these can be true at the same time.
  - avalys 3y ago
    Do you get upset at criminal defense lawyers who defend people who are obviously guilty (i.e. by getting clear and convincing evidence disqualified because of a procedural error?) Or, would you say something like "The outcomes are not perfect but that's how the system works and stays as fair as possible for everyone"?
    - jjulius 3y ago
      Most things are circumstantial and nuanced, not black and white. So, no, I usually do not get upset at that. Note how I said "can" rather than saying "must be" or something more absolute like that. And the idea that things are "as fair as possible for everyone" in this particular (read: Intuit) scenario is laughable at best.
    - AdieuToLogic 3y ago
      > Do you get upset at criminal defense lawyers who defend people who are obviously guilty ... This is an obvious Straw man[0] fallacy. Intuit is a corporation engaged in lobbying efforts in order to retain and/or expand its market-share and not an individual needing representation in a criminal indictment. Unless your position is that Intuit corporate officers should be criminally prosecuted, which, if that is the case, I apologize for my misunderstanding and can see your point. 0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
nshelly 3y ago
Intuit also produces Quickbooks -- which actually is SMB accounting software, and used internationally. As most of their revenue is from businesses who wouldn't easily be able to free-file, I wouldn't be surprised if Intuit's lobbying to prevent a free tax filing offering from the government was causing them more harm than good.
- jimbob45 3y ago
  And now QuickBooks is also a bank? Offering checking accounts? I suspect they’ve just partnered with a real bank to do so but the brand confusion is off the charts.
  - nshelly 3y ago
    I imagine Quickbooks is adding more features as part of an upsell. The business loans by paying invoices upfront was a bit of a ZIRP policy though (now interest rates to SMB's likely would be prohibitively high, ~15%).
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

toomuchtodo 3y ago

They are not a tech company. They are a regulatory capture company that uses tech to extract from the general public what should be free. The code and platform are the performance art to enable the rake. Edit: Meant to scope this comment solely to TurboTax. Replies correcting me are well deserved.

pcurve 3y ago
I think most people would be shocked to learn how big intuit is in terms of market cap. Bigger than Verizon wellsfargo ibm nike
- rootusrootus 3y ago
  From comments in threads like this I think most people would be shocked that Intuit makes the largest segment of their income from business customers, not individual consumers.
  - foolswisdom 3y ago
    Is this true for turbotax specifically, or merely for intuit as a whole (which includes things like quickbooks)?
    - pcurve 3y ago
      The “business customer” is a slight misnomer because Intuits definition of this segment includes “Small Business and Self Employed”. Quickbooks accounts for thr largest share For consumer segment TurboTax still drives 30% of their entire revenue.
- jjulius 3y ago
  For those unaware, Intuit owns... TurboTax Mint QuickBooks Credit Karma MailChimp
  - s1mon 3y ago
    They do own Mint, but they are killing it and trying to get customers to switch to Credit Karma. Intuit bought Mint but never really put much development effort into it beyond the bare minimum. Like too many financial tracking things which are "free", the user was the product on Mint that its advertisers wanted. I switched to Monarch which is paid and has some people from the original Mint team behind it.
  - smartbit 3y ago
    and GitOps tool ArgoCD
WesternWind 3y ago
No, they are a tech company, they produce software for their main product. Like a lot of companies, tech and not, they use their power and resources to keep their position. The difference is that their actual competitor is the government. But that's also a big part of why private healthcare is way too expensive in the US, for worse results than other places.
- colordrops 3y ago
  It's a game of semantics. The other commenter's meaning is that a "tech company" would produce valuable tech that wouldn't otherwise exist. Intuit uses tech to do the opposite. McDonalds uses tech too, but they aren't a tech company.
  - ang_cire 3y ago
    McDonald's main product is not a piece of software. Intuit's is.
    - colordrops 3y ago
      That's what I'm saying though, they don't even produce a product. They produce legislative influence to create a money collecting trap. Turboxtax isn't a "product" per se. That's like calling the mafia security guards because they force you to pay protection money. Many countries don't even require filling out tax forms. You just sign and pay.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
- raegis 3y ago
  > The difference is that their actual competitor is the government. I think the government is more of an enabler, than a competitor. At least up until now.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

MathMonkeyMan 3y ago

Free government-provided tax calculators and online filing are an existential threat to Intuit. I think that the business should not exist (or should be scaled down to a fraction of its size, as an accountant's tool), but can you blame them for trying to block the deathblow?

quantified 3y ago
Sure. How much don't you blame the rat whose claws are embedded in your hand as you try to throw it in the river?
- MathMonkeyMan 3y ago
  As a New Yorker, I wouldn't dare try, but I see your point.
- rightbyte 3y ago
  I am quite sure it could swim so I would think it was ungrateful for me being so kind to it.

slg 3y ago

>they've invested infinitely more in lobbying to keep tax-filing complex I always feel the need to point out that anger at this is misplaced. Intuit is a business lobbying on behalf of itself like countless other businesses do. If the result makes you upset, you should be upset at our political system and the politicians who are willing to sell out the country for whatever those lobbyists are pushing. It is those politicians who are supposed to prioritize the good of the country, not Intuit or their lobbyists.

jjulius 3y ago
We can be upset at politicians for "selling out" to the lobbyists. We can be upset at lobbyists for pushing things that they know aren't in the best interests of consumers. We can be upset at businesses for wanting to take advantage of consumers for their own gain. All of these can be true at the same time.
- avalys 3y ago
  Do you get upset at criminal defense lawyers who defend people who are obviously guilty (i.e. by getting clear and convincing evidence disqualified because of a procedural error?) Or, would you say something like "The outcomes are not perfect but that's how the system works and stays as fair as possible for everyone"?
  - jjulius 3y ago
    Most things are circumstantial and nuanced, not black and white. So, no, I usually do not get upset at that. Note how I said "can" rather than saying "must be" or something more absolute like that. And the idea that things are "as fair as possible for everyone" in this particular (read: Intuit) scenario is laughable at best.
  - AdieuToLogic 3y ago
    > Do you get upset at criminal defense lawyers who defend people who are obviously guilty ... This is an obvious Straw man[0] fallacy. Intuit is a corporation engaged in lobbying efforts in order to retain and/or expand its market-share and not an individual needing representation in a criminal indictment. Unless your position is that Intuit corporate officers should be criminally prosecuted, which, if that is the case, I apologize for my misunderstanding and can see your point. 0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

nshelly 3y ago

Intuit also produces Quickbooks -- which actually is SMB accounting software, and used internationally. As most of their revenue is from businesses who wouldn't easily be able to free-file, I wouldn't be surprised if Intuit's lobbying to prevent a free tax filing offering from the government was causing them more harm than good.

jimbob45 3y ago
And now QuickBooks is also a bank? Offering checking accounts? I suspect they’ve just partnered with a real bank to do so but the brand confusion is off the charts.
- nshelly 3y ago
  I imagine Quickbooks is adding more features as part of an upsell. The business loans by paying invoices upfront was a bit of a ZIRP policy though (now interest rates to SMB's likely would be prohibitively high, ~15%).

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]