4 ms·

Worse, is that Visa/MC/Paypal are "private" companies which can impose whatever religious slant they want, on whatever transactions they want, and your recourse

Worse, is that Visa/MC/Paypal are "private" companies which can impose whatever religious slant they want, on whatever transactions they want, and your recourse as a consumer is "use the free market to pick a different payment processor". Cash doesn't care if you're buying groceries or porn. Visa very much does.

throwaway15858 3y ago
The line between "private" companies and government action is intentionally blurred. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Choke_Point https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Choke_Point
- onthecanposting 3y ago
  Most things people assume the US government "does" is performed by contractors. Even program management may be outsourced to specialty firms. The more first-hand knowledge I gain about any department, the more I believe this is universal.
  - throwaway15858 3y ago
    That's certainly the case. The problem is the legal and social framework hasn't caught up with the times. It wasn't that long ago that the government was small enough to be funded entirely by tariffs. Everything has been outsourced but it's still treated as not a government action so we get all sorts of nasty things like unaccountable private prisons.
jjav 3y ago
This is the fundamentally most important issue. You should not be forced to use the services of any private company to get through the basics of life. It should be an option to choose between many, but also the option to choose none. Cash is issues by the government, it's the same for all of use, anyone is free to use it. It can't be suspended or remotely wiped, cash transactions cannot be supervised (and thus sometimes blocked) by a third party.
- votepaunchy 3y ago
  > You should not be forced to use the services of any private company to get through the basics of life. How do I buy food/clothing/shelter from the government? We are already discussing the actions of private businesses.
  - jjav 3y ago
    You can grow your own food, or trade with a neighbor or buy at farmers markets etc. Also, there are thousands of options where to buy food so there is no corporation oligopoly that can ban you from buying food. Same for clothing. Housing you pretty much always buy from a private individual, never from a corporation. Contrast these to a dystopian world where you're only allowed to make transaction with a credit card but visa & mastercard (private megacorporations) decide to ban you. That's it, you're basically not part of society anymore. (Sure there's discover and amex but their acceptance in most places is low.)

throwaway15858 3y ago

The line between "private" companies and government action is intentionally blurred. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Choke_Point https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Choke_Point

onthecanposting 3y ago
Most things people assume the US government "does" is performed by contractors. Even program management may be outsourced to specialty firms. The more first-hand knowledge I gain about any department, the more I believe this is universal.
- throwaway15858 3y ago
  That's certainly the case. The problem is the legal and social framework hasn't caught up with the times. It wasn't that long ago that the government was small enough to be funded entirely by tariffs. Everything has been outsourced but it's still treated as not a government action so we get all sorts of nasty things like unaccountable private prisons.

jjav 3y ago

This is the fundamentally most important issue. You should not be forced to use the services of any private company to get through the basics of life. It should be an option to choose between many, but also the option to choose none. Cash is issues by the government, it's the same for all of use, anyone is free to use it. It can't be suspended or remotely wiped, cash transactions cannot be supervised (and thus sometimes blocked) by a third party.

votepaunchy 3y ago
> You should not be forced to use the services of any private company to get through the basics of life. How do I buy food/clothing/shelter from the government? We are already discussing the actions of private businesses.
- jjav 3y ago
  You can grow your own food, or trade with a neighbor or buy at farmers markets etc. Also, there are thousands of options where to buy food so there is no corporation oligopoly that can ban you from buying food. Same for clothing. Housing you pretty much always buy from a private individual, never from a corporation. Contrast these to a dystopian world where you're only allowed to make transaction with a credit card but visa & mastercard (private megacorporations) decide to ban you. That's it, you're basically not part of society anymore. (Sure there's discover and amex but their acceptance in most places is low.)