3 ms·

Mostly plant-based? This is kind of wishful thinking. Okinawa, for instance, eats plenty of fish. The Greeks and the Italians eat plenty of fish, meat and chees

Mostly plant-based? This is kind of wishful thinking. Okinawa, for instance, eats plenty of fish. The Greeks and the Italians eat plenty of fish, meat and cheese. The poorest countries have the greatest percentage of plant-based food and, no surprise, they also have the shortest lifespans. The reality is that the phrase "plant-based" is now a buzzword replacement for "vegetarian" and it has more political meaning than any real connection to health or nutrition. Hostess Twinkees, Hohos, Ring Dings, etc. are all very good examples of plant-based food.

pmlamotte 3y ago
The Okinawa diet commonly touted for longevity was primarily sweet potato, and only 1% fish. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okinawa_diet https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okinawa_diet
- 0cf8612b2e1e 3y ago
  Unfortunately, I now have to have doubts about any Japanese longevity associations after many centenarians were found to have been secretly dead. Families were collecting the death benefits and pretending the person was still alive. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/sep/10/japenese-centenarians-records https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/sep/10/japenese-cente...
  - klipt 3y ago
    So the secret to longevity really is generous social benefits ... and not checking too carefully if the beneficiary is still alive.
hombre_fatal 3y ago
> The poorest countries have the greatest percentage of plant-based food and, no surprise, they also have the shortest lifespans. Are you suggesting it's because of plants and not because they're poor? Instead of making ecological comparisons, you should ask the question of what the science shows within one population, like in prospective cohort studies. Does increased vegetable consumption correlate with better or worse health outcomes? > Hostess Twinkees, Hohos, Ring Dings, etc. are all very good examples of plant-based food. Sure, but that's not what people are talking about when they refer to plants in the context of health and nutrition.
- romwell 3y ago
  >Are you suggesting it's because of plants and not because they're poor? I believe they are suggesting that the diet being plant-based is not a guarantee of health or a long life-span, contrary to what the parent comment implied. And that nutritious and healthy diet is not necessarily plant-based.
- romwell 3y ago
  >> Hostess Twinkees, Hohos, Ring Dings, etc. are all very good examples of plant-based food. >Sure, but that's not what people are talking about when they refer to plants in the context of health and nutrition. Citation needed. Specifically, this definition[0] disagrees with your opinion, allowing "higly processed foods" and "refined sweeteners" in a plant-based diet (necessittating a newly-invented acronym WFPB[1], meaning "whole-food plant-based"). They helpfully included a lollipop pictogram to get the point across. "Plant-based" is a useless noise-word that should not be used at all, especially when you do have something concrete in mind. And if you don't, it's better not to speak, and figure out what you mean first. We already have words like vegetarian and vegan that, while not scientifically precise, allow for a decent amount of understanding of what a person eats when they say they follow a vegetarian or a vegan diet. Plant-based communicates no such thing. All "plant-based" diet definitions seem to generally involve eating less meat, without specifying less than what. The phrase "plant based" is as vapid as "more healthy" when provided without further elaboration. This[2] defintion of "plant-based", for example, puts Mediterranean diet as an example; this effectively prescribes eating fish and poultry[3]. The same source[3] says the Japenese diet is similar (and is, therefore, also plant-based). The parent comment juxtaposed these two diets to "plant-based" ones, because their best guess as to what "plant-based" means did not include "heavy on poultry and fish". Nobody seems to be able to say what exactly isn't a plant-based diet. Example [4]: >Whole30, a popular diet and lifestyle plan, doesn’t usually qualify. “The Whole30 diet traditionally is heavier on animal proteins, though it is possible to follow this diet in a plant-based way,” Manaker says. I'm guessing that subsisting exclusively on beef steak is not a plant-based diet, but perhaps, too, that can be followed in a plant-based way somehow. When a diet described as plant-based requires you to "enjoy" fish and poultry weekly, we are firmly in the territory outlined in Orwell's brilliant essay "Politics and the English language"[5], which correctly observed (and predicted) the proliferation of meaningless buzz-words like "plant-based" (and corresponding acronyms), as well as the subsequent atrophy of thought. "I am trying to less meat than I used to" has an unambiguous meaning. "I am switching to a plant-based diet" has no meaning, because it communicates precisely zero information. Please avoid using words and phrases that don't mean anything. For Orwell's sake, if not for ours. [0] https://www.forksoverknives.com/how-tos/plant-based-primer-beginners-guide-starting-plant-based-diet/ https://www.forksoverknives.com/how-tos/plant-based-primer-b... [1] https://www.doctorsfornutrition.org/general-public/what-is-wfpb/ https://www.doctorsfornutrition.org/general-public/what-is-w... [2] https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/what-is-a-plant-based-diet-and-why-should-you-try-it-2018092614760 https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/what-is-a-plant-based-di... [3] https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/in-depth/mediterranean-diet/art-20047801 https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-h... [4] https://www.everydayhealth.com/diet-nutrition/plant-based-diet-food-list-meal-plan-benefits-more/ https://www.everydayhealth.com/diet-nutrition/plant-based-di... [5] https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwell/essays-and-other-works/politics-and-the-english-language/ https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwel...

pmlamotte 3y ago

The Okinawa diet commonly touted for longevity was primarily sweet potato, and only 1% fish. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okinawa_diet https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okinawa_diet

0cf8612b2e1e 3y ago
Unfortunately, I now have to have doubts about any Japanese longevity associations after many centenarians were found to have been secretly dead. Families were collecting the death benefits and pretending the person was still alive. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/sep/10/japenese-centenarians-records https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/sep/10/japenese-cente...
- klipt 3y ago
  So the secret to longevity really is generous social benefits ... and not checking too carefully if the beneficiary is still alive.

hombre_fatal 3y ago

> The poorest countries have the greatest percentage of plant-based food and, no surprise, they also have the shortest lifespans. Are you suggesting it's because of plants and not because they're poor? Instead of making ecological comparisons, you should ask the question of what the science shows within one population, like in prospective cohort studies. Does increased vegetable consumption correlate with better or worse health outcomes? > Hostess Twinkees, Hohos, Ring Dings, etc. are all very good examples of plant-based food. Sure, but that's not what people are talking about when they refer to plants in the context of health and nutrition.

romwell 3y ago
>Are you suggesting it's because of plants and not because they're poor? I believe they are suggesting that the diet being plant-based is not a guarantee of health or a long life-span, contrary to what the parent comment implied. And that nutritious and healthy diet is not necessarily plant-based.
romwell 3y ago
>> Hostess Twinkees, Hohos, Ring Dings, etc. are all very good examples of plant-based food. >Sure, but that's not what people are talking about when they refer to plants in the context of health and nutrition. Citation needed. Specifically, this definition[0] disagrees with your opinion, allowing "higly processed foods" and "refined sweeteners" in a plant-based diet (necessittating a newly-invented acronym WFPB[1], meaning "whole-food plant-based"). They helpfully included a lollipop pictogram to get the point across. "Plant-based" is a useless noise-word that should not be used at all, especially when you do have something concrete in mind. And if you don't, it's better not to speak, and figure out what you mean first. We already have words like vegetarian and vegan that, while not scientifically precise, allow for a decent amount of understanding of what a person eats when they say they follow a vegetarian or a vegan diet. Plant-based communicates no such thing. All "plant-based" diet definitions seem to generally involve eating less meat, without specifying less than what. The phrase "plant based" is as vapid as "more healthy" when provided without further elaboration. This[2] defintion of "plant-based", for example, puts Mediterranean diet as an example; this effectively prescribes eating fish and poultry[3]. The same source[3] says the Japenese diet is similar (and is, therefore, also plant-based). The parent comment juxtaposed these two diets to "plant-based" ones, because their best guess as to what "plant-based" means did not include "heavy on poultry and fish". Nobody seems to be able to say what exactly isn't a plant-based diet. Example [4]: >Whole30, a popular diet and lifestyle plan, doesn’t usually qualify. “The Whole30 diet traditionally is heavier on animal proteins, though it is possible to follow this diet in a plant-based way,” Manaker says. I'm guessing that subsisting exclusively on beef steak is not a plant-based diet, but perhaps, too, that can be followed in a plant-based way somehow. When a diet described as plant-based requires you to "enjoy" fish and poultry weekly, we are firmly in the territory outlined in Orwell's brilliant essay "Politics and the English language"[5], which correctly observed (and predicted) the proliferation of meaningless buzz-words like "plant-based" (and corresponding acronyms), as well as the subsequent atrophy of thought. "I am trying to less meat than I used to" has an unambiguous meaning. "I am switching to a plant-based diet" has no meaning, because it communicates precisely zero information. Please avoid using words and phrases that don't mean anything. For Orwell's sake, if not for ours. [0] https://www.forksoverknives.com/how-tos/plant-based-primer-beginners-guide-starting-plant-based-diet/ https://www.forksoverknives.com/how-tos/plant-based-primer-b... [1] https://www.doctorsfornutrition.org/general-public/what-is-wfpb/ https://www.doctorsfornutrition.org/general-public/what-is-w... [2] https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/what-is-a-plant-based-diet-and-why-should-you-try-it-2018092614760 https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/what-is-a-plant-based-di... [3] https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/in-depth/mediterranean-diet/art-20047801 https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-h... [4] https://www.everydayhealth.com/diet-nutrition/plant-based-diet-food-list-meal-plan-benefits-more/ https://www.everydayhealth.com/diet-nutrition/plant-based-di... [5] https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwell/essays-and-other-works/politics-and-the-english-language/ https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwel...