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There is a not insignificant amount of evidence pointing to psychedelics as playing an outsized role in the formation of religions. A shaman brewing a mystical

There is a not insignificant amount of evidence pointing to psychedelics as playing an outsized role in the formation of religions. A shaman brewing a mystical drink that gives you visions of supernatural forces is pretty convincing evidence of a god(s) to your any 2000 B.C. person. How else could you explain such a trip while having no concept of chemicals much less neurochemistry.

ethanbond 3y ago
Alternatively you can also meditate/pray your way to similar states as the ones psychedelics induce. It takes a ton of practice, but I was able to generate very notable open-eyed hallucinations after just 2 years of low-intensity meditative practice (roughly equivalent to 120ug of LSD). It is totally believable that a true religious zealot would be able to achieve much, much more with decades of practice.
- QuercusMax 3y ago
  Ram Dass told the story about how he visited the guru Neem Karoli Baba (AKA Maharaj-ji) and gave him a bunch of LSD, which supposedly had no effect on the guru because he was already having open-eye hallucinations from his meditation. https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cross-check/baba-ram-dass-and-the-tale-of-the-acid-gobbling-guru/ https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cross-check/baba-ram-da... Probably BS, but matches with what you say.
  - bratwurst3000 3y ago
    Hehe maybe the guru had a severe psychosis and that’s why the lsd didn’t do anything.
- pgsandstrom 3y ago
  In your experience, how common is this? I must know at least thirty people that have meditated for over 15 years, and none have mentioned open-eyed hallucinations.
  - PaperOliver 3y ago
    I have also had this experience. Meditating for 12 minutes a day for a year or so.
asveikau 3y ago
It's an interesting theory that I've heard before, and I think it did probably play a role at least some of the time, but I think we need to be cautious about attributing too much to it. I think people who have interest in drugs often may get excited about this idea and push it a little far. My point is you don't necessarily need chemical inducement to start or sustain the idea. Centuries of religious people believed in transcendent consciousness at times in history where they demonstrably had no access to drugs. You don't need to partake to be moved by John Lennon's all you need is love either; a lot of the people listening did not. And part of our cultural norms have these ideas baked in, with or without drugs.
satellite2 3y ago
Fever will also cause hallucinations. And in the three main monotheist religions formation stories there is a good amount of time spent/lost in the desert.
TaylorAlexander 3y ago
It's pretty convincing evidence to a 2000 A.D. person too!
physicles 3y ago
Sam Harris recently interviewed historian Brian Muraresku about just this topic. Brian studies ancient mystery religions, in which a central part of the “faith” was often an experience that was likely induced by psychedelics. It’s frustrating how little first-hand literary evidence there is, but archaeologists have managed to find actual ancient wine jars laced with all sorts of interesting crap — wine back then wasn’t the pure stuff we have today.

ethanbond 3y ago

Alternatively you can also meditate/pray your way to similar states as the ones psychedelics induce. It takes a ton of practice, but I was able to generate very notable open-eyed hallucinations after just 2 years of low-intensity meditative practice (roughly equivalent to 120ug of LSD). It is totally believable that a true religious zealot would be able to achieve much, much more with decades of practice.

QuercusMax 3y ago
Ram Dass told the story about how he visited the guru Neem Karoli Baba (AKA Maharaj-ji) and gave him a bunch of LSD, which supposedly had no effect on the guru because he was already having open-eye hallucinations from his meditation. https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cross-check/baba-ram-dass-and-the-tale-of-the-acid-gobbling-guru/ https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cross-check/baba-ram-da... Probably BS, but matches with what you say.
- bratwurst3000 3y ago
  Hehe maybe the guru had a severe psychosis and that’s why the lsd didn’t do anything.
pgsandstrom 3y ago
In your experience, how common is this? I must know at least thirty people that have meditated for over 15 years, and none have mentioned open-eyed hallucinations.
- PaperOliver 3y ago
  I have also had this experience. Meditating for 12 minutes a day for a year or so.

asveikau 3y ago

It's an interesting theory that I've heard before, and I think it did probably play a role at least some of the time, but I think we need to be cautious about attributing too much to it. I think people who have interest in drugs often may get excited about this idea and push it a little far. My point is you don't necessarily need chemical inducement to start or sustain the idea. Centuries of religious people believed in transcendent consciousness at times in history where they demonstrably had no access to drugs. You don't need to partake to be moved by John Lennon's all you need is love either; a lot of the people listening did not. And part of our cultural norms have these ideas baked in, with or without drugs.

satellite2 3y ago

Fever will also cause hallucinations. And in the three main monotheist religions formation stories there is a good amount of time spent/lost in the desert.

TaylorAlexander 3y ago

It's pretty convincing evidence to a 2000 A.D. person too!

physicles 3y ago

Sam Harris recently interviewed historian Brian Muraresku about just this topic. Brian studies ancient mystery religions, in which a central part of the “faith” was often an experience that was likely induced by psychedelics. It’s frustrating how little first-hand literary evidence there is, but archaeologists have managed to find actual ancient wine jars laced with all sorts of interesting crap — wine back then wasn’t the pure stuff we have today.