Engineers manage risk and cost. They certainly make mistakes, like those couple buildings that are famously leaning over in SF and NYC, or the citycorp center

Engineers manage risk and cost. They certainly make mistakes, like those couple buildings that are famously leaning over in SF and NYC, or the citycorp center where they got the wind sheer loads wrong and had to hot patch the building. But looking at the malarkey that goes on in "software engineering" or whatever -- clearly not engineering, at least not where I've seen it. Engineering: a process of repeatably solving an understood problem predictably. Craft: a process of solving an understood problem. Science: a process of solving a problem without an exactly understood outcome. Art: a process of working. These are all made-up definitions. I'd expect a software engineer to give me a system that locally caches and verifies distribution artifacts and validates changes -- a craftsperson who gives me a tool chain that yeets goo from the internet and builds on that without validation is not, in fact, an engineer. They could be quite practiced at the art of building working systems, but they're not managing risk....