6 ms·

Cervical Cancer incidence drops 65% in women who benefited from HPV vaccine

112 points by Anon84 3y ago

olliej 3y ago
[flagged]
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  People who think young folks who have sex (who are going to have sex [1]) should suffer for the decision are the challenge to be mitigated. You can’t fix the mental model (they are rigid, among other influences), but you can box it in with policy (with, hopefully, a foundation grounded in evidence). Tactical vs strategic considering the continuing decline of religion in the US [2] [3] [4] [5]. You're protecting today's youth cohort until the future arrives. In this specific case, you're literally avoiding cancer with the vaccine. > In recent years, the fertility gap by religion has widened to unprecedented levels. But while this difference may comfort some of the faithful who hope higher fertility rates will ultimately yield stable membership in churches and synagogues, these hopes may be in vain. Rates of conversion into unfaith are too high, and fertility rates too low, to yield stable religious populations. [5] [1] https://www.jahonline.org/article/S1054-139X(17)30297-5/fulltext https://www.jahonline.org/article/S1054-139X(17)30297-5/full... [2] https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2022/09/13/modeling-the-future-of-religion-in-america/ https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2022/09/13/modeling-the... [3] https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2019/10/17/in-u-s-decline-of-christianity-continues-at-rapid-pace/ https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2019/10/17/in-u-s-decli... [4] https://www.npr.org/2023/05/16/1176206568/less-important-religion-in-lives-of-americans-shrinking-report https://www.npr.org/2023/05/16/1176206568/less-important-rel... [5] https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2022/august-web-only/birth-rates-church-attendance-decline-fertility-crisis.html https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2022/august-web-only/bi...
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    Additional citation: https://www.axios.com/2024/01/23/gen-z-less-religious-more-liberal-lgbtq https://www.axios.com/2024/01/23/gen-z-less-religious-more-l...
- tcmart14 3y ago
  This post is endorsed by the son of a mother 16 years older who lived in a strict catholic household whose older sister also had a daughter she is 17 years older than.
jonathankoren 3y ago
A huge health win, that was opposed by the religious right because preventing cervical cancer encourages teen sex. This is 13 years ago. The very women the GOP was arguing shouldn’t get vaccinated while campaigning for president. Elections matter. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1800969/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1800969/
- nerpderp82 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - talldatethrow 3y ago
    If you give 100million women a vaccine eventually to save 80k women death (assuming they die sometimes in their last 20 years of life), it's not instantly obvious if it's worth it. There have already been studies that show getting herpes vaccines increases your odds of dementia. Less than getting actual herpes. But if you could tell yourself to marry a virgin (as a virgin yourself) and remain faithful, you wouldn't have to worry about the brain issues from either the vaccine or herpes. And of course the possibility exists other yet unknown problems exist too. Most people that got the hpv vaccine probably weren't aware of the dimension risks at the time.
    - xcrunner529 3y ago
      Could you link to these studies?
      - talldatethrow 3y ago
        Google.com
        xcrunner529 3y ago
        lol so you don’t have any. And also didn’t even realize the ‘herpes’ vaccine is for shingles and not the STD. Smart guy you are.
electrondood 3y ago
In case anyone here knows someone with high-risk HPV who was too old to benefit from these vaccines... this is my favorite medical study: a combination of Reishi and turkey tail mushrooms boost the body's clearance rate from 5% to 88% in a 2-month period [0]. I firmly believe this would have been 100% if they'd continued past 2 months. A friend of mine had a positive pap test for high-risk HPV, and I sent her this study. She started on this combo of mushrooms and at her followup the next month she was clear. [0] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25271984/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25271984/
- huytersd 3y ago
  Is 5-88% the range or progression?
  - reaperman 3y ago
    HPV was "cured" (cleared) by the human body itself within 2 months in 5% of the control subjects (n=20) and in 88% of the test group (n=41). https://sci-hub.ru/10.1615/intjmedmushrooms.v16.i5.80 https://sci-hub.ru/10.1615/intjmedmushrooms.v16.i5.80
    - kmonad 3y ago
      The abstract indicates that there was no control group without treatment, but two groups given two different mushroom combos. As such, the "baseline" clearance is not revealed by this work.
      - reaperman 3y ago
        I noticed the same thing, FWIW (and I believe it's a valid concern), but section II.B. says "One control group (20 patients) received LS (Laetiporus sulphureus) (400 mg/d; two capsules) for 2 months." I think they were concerned that various tree bark needed to grow the fungus could itself influence the outcome and wanted to "control" for any effects of the bark. Part IV says "LS grown on the same barks as TV or GL was chosen as a control since no anti-HPV property has yet been reported with this mycelium and because the influence of barks should be excluded." Perhaps there are more studies out there with different "controls" that would add to this research to help rule out any influence from unknown properties of Laetiporus sulphureus.
matteoraso 3y ago
It's not often brought up, but there's several cancers caused by HPV that also affect men, like oral and penile cancer. I've long thought that the vaccine shouldn't just be marketed towards women.
- tialaramex 3y ago
  It isn't. Does the US not vaccinate boys? Most advanced countries began routinely vaccinating boys in the same cohort as girls. In the UK certainly "Men who have sex with Men" is the next most significant group targeted for vaccination, up to age 45. The reason this didn't happen from the outset is that you can't vaccinate the boys to protect girls because that's not a direct benefit to the patient, the early data was specifically for cervical cancer and if you don't have a cervix that isn't a benefit.
  - anderber 3y ago
    Europe vaccinated boys way before in the US. When I tried to get the vaccine back in college, I was denied. I argued that in Europe they were vaccinating boys, but to no avail. In other words, at the time they knew the direct benefits for boys, but that wasn't a concern because girls had a higher rate of cancer from HPV. So they were prioritized.
  - adamredwoods 3y ago
    They vaccinate boys. Our doctor recommended it, but I suspect it largely depends on the doctor.
  - londons_explore 3y ago
    > can't vaccinate the boys to protect girls because that's not a direct benefit Medical ethics doesn't allow a procedure which is good for society, but doesn't directly benefit the patient. However, I think that is wrong. Elsewhere in society we frequently do that - for example we put people into prison, which is of very little benefit to the prisoner. We stand up to let an old person take a seat on a train, which is of no benefit to the person standing up. We send bailiffs, which is of little benefit to the debtor. We pay taxes, which is of little direct benefit to the taxpayer. Why does the medical world have a stricter ethical standard when there are clearly benefits to society that cannot be realised because of the different approach?
aaron695 3y ago
[dead]
hulitu 3y ago
How many HPV vaccine producers exist besides Merck ? Are there any independent evaluation of those vaccines ? I only saw Merck literature on this topic.
- snakeyjake 3y ago
  >Are there any independent evaluation of those vaccines ? In the section of the linked statistical report from the American Cancer Society that covers HPV there are seven citations, none of which appear to be papers funded by Merck.

112 points by Anon84 3y ago

olliej 3y ago

[flagged]

toomuchtodo 3y ago
People who think young folks who have sex (who are going to have sex [1]) should suffer for the decision are the challenge to be mitigated. You can’t fix the mental model (they are rigid, among other influences), but you can box it in with policy (with, hopefully, a foundation grounded in evidence). Tactical vs strategic considering the continuing decline of religion in the US [2] [3] [4] [5]. You're protecting today's youth cohort until the future arrives. In this specific case, you're literally avoiding cancer with the vaccine. > In recent years, the fertility gap by religion has widened to unprecedented levels. But while this difference may comfort some of the faithful who hope higher fertility rates will ultimately yield stable membership in churches and synagogues, these hopes may be in vain. Rates of conversion into unfaith are too high, and fertility rates too low, to yield stable religious populations. [5] [1] https://www.jahonline.org/article/S1054-139X(17)30297-5/fulltext https://www.jahonline.org/article/S1054-139X(17)30297-5/full... [2] https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2022/09/13/modeling-the-future-of-religion-in-america/ https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2022/09/13/modeling-the... [3] https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2019/10/17/in-u-s-decline-of-christianity-continues-at-rapid-pace/ https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2019/10/17/in-u-s-decli... [4] https://www.npr.org/2023/05/16/1176206568/less-important-religion-in-lives-of-americans-shrinking-report https://www.npr.org/2023/05/16/1176206568/less-important-rel... [5] https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2022/august-web-only/birth-rates-church-attendance-decline-fertility-crisis.html https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2022/august-web-only/bi...
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  Additional citation: https://www.axios.com/2024/01/23/gen-z-less-religious-more-liberal-lgbtq https://www.axios.com/2024/01/23/gen-z-less-religious-more-l...
tcmart14 3y ago
This post is endorsed by the son of a mother 16 years older who lived in a strict catholic household whose older sister also had a daughter she is 17 years older than.

jonathankoren 3y ago

A huge health win, that was opposed by the religious right because preventing cervical cancer encourages teen sex. This is 13 years ago. The very women the GOP was arguing shouldn’t get vaccinated while campaigning for president. Elections matter. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1800969/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1800969/

nerpderp82 3y ago
[flagged]
- talldatethrow 3y ago
  If you give 100million women a vaccine eventually to save 80k women death (assuming they die sometimes in their last 20 years of life), it's not instantly obvious if it's worth it. There have already been studies that show getting herpes vaccines increases your odds of dementia. Less than getting actual herpes. But if you could tell yourself to marry a virgin (as a virgin yourself) and remain faithful, you wouldn't have to worry about the brain issues from either the vaccine or herpes. And of course the possibility exists other yet unknown problems exist too. Most people that got the hpv vaccine probably weren't aware of the dimension risks at the time.
  - xcrunner529 3y ago
    Could you link to these studies?
    - talldatethrow 3y ago
      Google.com
      - xcrunner529 3y ago
        lol so you don’t have any. And also didn’t even realize the ‘herpes’ vaccine is for shingles and not the STD. Smart guy you are.

electrondood 3y ago

In case anyone here knows someone with high-risk HPV who was too old to benefit from these vaccines... this is my favorite medical study: a combination of Reishi and turkey tail mushrooms boost the body's clearance rate from 5% to 88% in a 2-month period [0]. I firmly believe this would have been 100% if they'd continued past 2 months. A friend of mine had a positive pap test for high-risk HPV, and I sent her this study. She started on this combo of mushrooms and at her followup the next month she was clear. [0] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25271984/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25271984/

huytersd 3y ago
Is 5-88% the range or progression?
- reaperman 3y ago
  HPV was "cured" (cleared) by the human body itself within 2 months in 5% of the control subjects (n=20) and in 88% of the test group (n=41). https://sci-hub.ru/10.1615/intjmedmushrooms.v16.i5.80 https://sci-hub.ru/10.1615/intjmedmushrooms.v16.i5.80
  - kmonad 3y ago
    The abstract indicates that there was no control group without treatment, but two groups given two different mushroom combos. As such, the "baseline" clearance is not revealed by this work.
    - reaperman 3y ago
      I noticed the same thing, FWIW (and I believe it's a valid concern), but section II.B. says "One control group (20 patients) received LS (Laetiporus sulphureus) (400 mg/d; two capsules) for 2 months." I think they were concerned that various tree bark needed to grow the fungus could itself influence the outcome and wanted to "control" for any effects of the bark. Part IV says "LS grown on the same barks as TV or GL was chosen as a control since no anti-HPV property has yet been reported with this mycelium and because the influence of barks should be excluded." Perhaps there are more studies out there with different "controls" that would add to this research to help rule out any influence from unknown properties of Laetiporus sulphureus.

matteoraso 3y ago

It's not often brought up, but there's several cancers caused by HPV that also affect men, like oral and penile cancer. I've long thought that the vaccine shouldn't just be marketed towards women.

tialaramex 3y ago
It isn't. Does the US not vaccinate boys? Most advanced countries began routinely vaccinating boys in the same cohort as girls. In the UK certainly "Men who have sex with Men" is the next most significant group targeted for vaccination, up to age 45. The reason this didn't happen from the outset is that you can't vaccinate the boys to protect girls because that's not a direct benefit to the patient, the early data was specifically for cervical cancer and if you don't have a cervix that isn't a benefit.
- anderber 3y ago
  Europe vaccinated boys way before in the US. When I tried to get the vaccine back in college, I was denied. I argued that in Europe they were vaccinating boys, but to no avail. In other words, at the time they knew the direct benefits for boys, but that wasn't a concern because girls had a higher rate of cancer from HPV. So they were prioritized.
- adamredwoods 3y ago
  They vaccinate boys. Our doctor recommended it, but I suspect it largely depends on the doctor.
- londons_explore 3y ago
  > can't vaccinate the boys to protect girls because that's not a direct benefit Medical ethics doesn't allow a procedure which is good for society, but doesn't directly benefit the patient. However, I think that is wrong. Elsewhere in society we frequently do that - for example we put people into prison, which is of very little benefit to the prisoner. We stand up to let an old person take a seat on a train, which is of no benefit to the person standing up. We send bailiffs, which is of little benefit to the debtor. We pay taxes, which is of little direct benefit to the taxpayer. Why does the medical world have a stricter ethical standard when there are clearly benefits to society that cannot be realised because of the different approach?

aaron695 3y ago

[dead]

hulitu 3y ago

How many HPV vaccine producers exist besides Merck ? Are there any independent evaluation of those vaccines ? I only saw Merck literature on this topic.

snakeyjake 3y ago
>Are there any independent evaluation of those vaccines ? In the section of the linked statistical report from the American Cancer Society that covers HPV there are seven citations, none of which appear to be papers funded by Merck.