4 ms·

That's the whole ploy with Agile, isn't it? In the classical SDLC or Waterfall paradigm, everything was pre-approved and signed off, not just the cost or billin

by pyeri 3y ago

That's the whole ploy with Agile, isn't it? In the classical SDLC or Waterfall paradigm, everything was pre-approved and signed off, not just the cost or billing but even the software design itself. Any change in the process and the designers had to raise a change request. Agile changed all of that and now we know how bad things can get with that.

tbalsam 3y ago
No, Agile is about tight development loops. When weaponized/used by large corporations it often times turns into a Stay-Puft man of sorts, but as someone who _hates_ processes normally, I actually kinda like it and Kanban when done well. It basically helps keep things clean with decomposition and doesn't necessarily hamstring older devs as much while giving a good guideline for younger devs to work in. All things considered, it seems like not a bad system to me, and the team customizing the process to their own needs is nice as well. There's a million ways for it to go wrong, but it's not too terrible on the whole I thinks. <3 :"))))
- ska 3y ago
  > who _hates_ processes normally, There is no such thing as "no process"; is something you always have whether you talk about it or not. The often heard "I hate process" is counterfactual then - what it really means is "I hate process that I see as intrusive/wasteful/whatever". The +'ves you are listing are what comes from looking at how things are actually done and doing some of it a bit more thoughtfully. The common -ves often come from stakeholders outside of developement injecting their needs ... sometimes this is unavoidable (e.g. regulatory) sometimes it is just political, but either way there are better and worse ways to do it.
pjc50 3y ago
But see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39092563 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39092563 ; the cost of pre-approval can be pretty large, as is the cost of change once you discover that you've frozen in the wrong thing. Agile benefits both consulting situations where the client genuinely doesn't understand their own needs, and also startups where you're building a new product and need to rapidly iterate in response to market feedback. (Escalating costs of pre-approval, and the need to design around every possible objection, are a big part of why physical infrastructure costs so much more in the West!)

by pyeri 3y ago

tbalsam 3y ago

No, Agile is about tight development loops. When weaponized/used by large corporations it often times turns into a Stay-Puft man of sorts, but as someone who _hates_ processes normally, I actually kinda like it and Kanban when done well. It basically helps keep things clean with decomposition and doesn't necessarily hamstring older devs as much while giving a good guideline for younger devs to work in. All things considered, it seems like not a bad system to me, and the team customizing the process to their own needs is nice as well. There's a million ways for it to go wrong, but it's not too terrible on the whole I thinks. <3 :"))))

ska 3y ago
> who _hates_ processes normally, There is no such thing as "no process"; is something you always have whether you talk about it or not. The often heard "I hate process" is counterfactual then - what it really means is "I hate process that I see as intrusive/wasteful/whatever". The +'ves you are listing are what comes from looking at how things are actually done and doing some of it a bit more thoughtfully. The common -ves often come from stakeholders outside of developement injecting their needs ... sometimes this is unavoidable (e.g. regulatory) sometimes it is just political, but either way there are better and worse ways to do it.

pjc50 3y ago

But see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39092563 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39092563 ; the cost of pre-approval can be pretty large, as is the cost of change once you discover that you've frozen in the wrong thing. Agile benefits both consulting situations where the client genuinely doesn't understand their own needs, and also startups where you're building a new product and need to rapidly iterate in response to market feedback. (Escalating costs of pre-approval, and the need to design around every possible objection, are a big part of why physical infrastructure costs so much more in the West!)