4 ms·

Google is still a juggernaut BUT... I don't think anyone here would claim competitor's "AI" isn't going to take a chunk of their search market, would they? Sea

Google is still a juggernaut BUT... I don't think anyone here would claim competitor's "AI" isn't going to take a chunk of their search market, would they? Search quality was diminishing for the past few years as it is, but there was no real alternative. Now I'm using ChatGPT as much (or more) than Google. Almost everything about Google Search is mediocre.

ejb999 3y ago
I agree, google has been coasting way to long on past successes - they are ripe for smaller/nimbler/newer companies to start chipping away at their revenues.
- andsoitis 3y ago
  Microsoft is financing OpenAI.
  - ejb999 3y ago
    correct, now they are - but OpenAI got a pretty good head start and foothold before Microsoft made an investment, and inarguably, were smaller and nimbler than google at the time - but I am not talking just about openAI, google has many, many products and services - they need to defend them all from lots of different startups and smaller players simultaneously who only need to be good at that one thing to start making dents in googles armour.
- nielsbot 3y ago
  coasting on their search+ads monopoly you mean.
AirMax98 3y ago
Github Copilot was the real killer for me. I would say around 80% of the time I no longer have to leave my IDE for trivial problems (e.g. I no longer Google the regex) that I'd otherwise just rip from Stack Overflow.
- surajrmal 3y ago
  Those searches aren't monetized anyway afaik, so I'm not sure it's really a bad thing for Google that you no longer make those queries.
zug_zug 3y ago
Well, I would argue that if the company had the gumption to do a 180 (on short-term spam/enshit/ads) they are the best placed company to revitalize and still dominate the search market 5 years from now. It's really hard to argue they don't have everything they would need to build the best product on a technical level - information, AI-talent, capital. But somehow we all know they are going to kill the golden goose for a quick feast.
SoftTalker 3y ago
Why do you think ChatGPT will stay free of ads, SEO-spam, tracking, profiling, all the stuff that's wrong with traditional search?
- hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
  I think SEO-spam would be much harder to implemented in an LLM vs. a traditional search engine. The harder part is figuring out an economic model where sources get any traffic in the first place.
  - lupire 3y ago
    In fact LLMs are precisely what is helping SEO spam destroy Google (and all other) search. That may be why MS loves ChatGPT so much.
andsoitis 3y ago
I’ve mostly switched to Bard, which I find superior to ChatGPT. More nuanced for most of the questions and conversations I have and I especially appreciate them linking out to sources!
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
surajrmal 3y ago
Superior technology is not enough to win. For the most part, people are happy with Google, it integrates well into all that various surfaces folks use, etc. ChatGPT had a lot of hype and seemed the closest to getting mind share to the point where it would affect search usage, but from what I can tell, it's not made a dent. Anecdotes from the bubble of technologists don't really speak to the wider trends anymore. Things which are mediocre and still dominate their segments include: Toyota cars, Heinz ketchup, GoPro cameras, Microsoft Windows, etc. Brand loyalty, trust, and familiarity simply go further than you think.
- brycewray 3y ago
  Those of us Of A Certain Age™ would add VHS to that list in your second paragraph. BetaMax was better in almost every way and even had the Sony name behind it, but in the end it didn’t matter.
- drewcoo 3y ago
  Assuming there's competition, doesn't dominating a market mean your product is the new mediocre? Competitors will try to compete on price but be low quality, compete on quality but be high priced, and you're in the sweet big middle spot?
closeparen 3y ago
Search quality is diminishing because "the web" as a graph of hyperlinked text documents where any domain name is a priori equally likely to contain a gem of information you're looking for, doesn't really exist anymore.
- Amezarak 3y ago
  It does, Google just heavily penalizes non-top-website pages for some inexplicable reason, sometimes outright de-indexing them. I guess you could argue this is a consequence of stopping spam - better to just ignore all small sites rather than risk catching blogspam. But somehow there's still plenty of blogspam.

ejb999 3y ago

I agree, google has been coasting way to long on past successes - they are ripe for smaller/nimbler/newer companies to start chipping away at their revenues.

andsoitis 3y ago
Microsoft is financing OpenAI.
- ejb999 3y ago
  correct, now they are - but OpenAI got a pretty good head start and foothold before Microsoft made an investment, and inarguably, were smaller and nimbler than google at the time - but I am not talking just about openAI, google has many, many products and services - they need to defend them all from lots of different startups and smaller players simultaneously who only need to be good at that one thing to start making dents in googles armour.
nielsbot 3y ago
coasting on their search+ads monopoly you mean.

AirMax98 3y ago

Github Copilot was the real killer for me. I would say around 80% of the time I no longer have to leave my IDE for trivial problems (e.g. I no longer Google the regex) that I'd otherwise just rip from Stack Overflow.

surajrmal 3y ago
Those searches aren't monetized anyway afaik, so I'm not sure it's really a bad thing for Google that you no longer make those queries.

zug_zug 3y ago

Well, I would argue that if the company had the gumption to do a 180 (on short-term spam/enshit/ads) they are the best placed company to revitalize and still dominate the search market 5 years from now. It's really hard to argue they don't have everything they would need to build the best product on a technical level - information, AI-talent, capital. But somehow we all know they are going to kill the golden goose for a quick feast.

SoftTalker 3y ago

Why do you think ChatGPT will stay free of ads, SEO-spam, tracking, profiling, all the stuff that's wrong with traditional search?

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
I think SEO-spam would be much harder to implemented in an LLM vs. a traditional search engine. The harder part is figuring out an economic model where sources get any traffic in the first place.
- lupire 3y ago
  In fact LLMs are precisely what is helping SEO spam destroy Google (and all other) search. That may be why MS loves ChatGPT so much.

andsoitis 3y ago

I’ve mostly switched to Bard, which I find superior to ChatGPT. More nuanced for most of the questions and conversations I have and I especially appreciate them linking out to sources!

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

surajrmal 3y ago

Superior technology is not enough to win. For the most part, people are happy with Google, it integrates well into all that various surfaces folks use, etc. ChatGPT had a lot of hype and seemed the closest to getting mind share to the point where it would affect search usage, but from what I can tell, it's not made a dent. Anecdotes from the bubble of technologists don't really speak to the wider trends anymore. Things which are mediocre and still dominate their segments include: Toyota cars, Heinz ketchup, GoPro cameras, Microsoft Windows, etc. Brand loyalty, trust, and familiarity simply go further than you think.

brycewray 3y ago
Those of us Of A Certain Age™ would add VHS to that list in your second paragraph. BetaMax was better in almost every way and even had the Sony name behind it, but in the end it didn’t matter.
drewcoo 3y ago
Assuming there's competition, doesn't dominating a market mean your product is the new mediocre? Competitors will try to compete on price but be low quality, compete on quality but be high priced, and you're in the sweet big middle spot?

closeparen 3y ago

Search quality is diminishing because "the web" as a graph of hyperlinked text documents where any domain name is a priori equally likely to contain a gem of information you're looking for, doesn't really exist anymore.

Amezarak 3y ago
It does, Google just heavily penalizes non-top-website pages for some inexplicable reason, sometimes outright de-indexing them. I guess you could argue this is a consequence of stopping spam - better to just ignore all small sites rather than risk catching blogspam. But somehow there's still plenty of blogspam.